Ballerina

[Erfolg]

I am contemplating building the Aug. free plan Ballerina.

Thr recommended motor is a Hacker A10-12s this retails in the UK at about £20.

Rather than pay this I have been considering a number of other motors in the £5-9 region

• F1818-1200
• Keda 2203
• Hi-model A2204
• Blue wonder

All are in the 15-20g range.

Has any one any comments on the motors, particularly relative to the Ballerina

Erfolg

[Foamie Dave]

Hi Erfolg,

Although Ive recommended the A10-15s or 9L, basically anything with a similar weight and thrust will be fine. If you look closely at the pics in the mag I actually flew with a rewound "Blue Wonder" for the outdoor shots. It was a little heavier than the Hacker by the time the tube mount was fitted but its still a cracking motor for the money.

I was lucky enough to have mine rewound by a buddy of mine, but the stock Blue Wonder will do just great if you keep the overall weight within the recommended guidlines. Like I mentioned in the blurb , a heavy Ballerina will fly nicely but a light one (without any wind ) will be superb.

Im shortly getting another one ready for the indoor season (number 4 !!) and it really is a cracking model.

Happy Building

[Erfolg]

Foamy Dave

Approx. how much carbon strips is required or length. Is it the .4, 0.6 or 0.8 thk. CF strip you use, you may have written it. but I cannot always seem to read.

Erfolg

[Foamie Dave]

It depends a lot on the type of foam , the overall weight youre aiming for and how you want to fly it.

If Its an indoor only model and build very lightly (and you prefer all out performance to crashability) you can get away with a strip of 0.1" x 2mm (or 3mm) on the L/E and T/E of both wings. If you want it a little stronger try 0.5mm x 3mm although it will weigh a little more. I know a few people that have build it without carbon LE and TE to keep it light for competition and it flys great but you'll end up with a very fragile airframe.

You can also add a length of cf  strip along the bottom of the fus to make it a litte more rigid, or if you're planning on using EPP instead of depron , I added a lattice of very thin carbon rod (or tube) to the rear of the fus to stiffen it up a little like its shows in the plan.

So basiaclly you'll need about 4 metres of cf strip (l/e and t/e)and another couple of meters of thin tube / rod for the rigging.

Hope this helps

[Erfolg]

Dave

Thanks

Erfolg

[inspector9566]

where can i get a plane for the ballerina my augest plane was the browne not a ballerina and i like the look of this one to brake into indoor for the winter

[Foamie Dave]

The Ballerina is in the September issue (which came out in August).

[inspector9566]

hi Dave thanks for your post but please tell me if i am missing something maybe a brain cell or two but my september issue came with a fling wing plan

[inspector9566]

SOMEBODY CALL 999!!!!! my two brain cells just crashed into each other . found the plan ITS ON THE BACK of the fling wing plan !!!!! thanks anyway dave brain dont work to well these days i need a map to find the plane (think i might be in trouble) now where is that modeling knife ?

[Foamie Dave]

No probs ..happy building

[Erfolg]

I have started the build, and as always there are more questions as I progress.

Is there not any better way of joining the CF to foam than the Glue Gun. I have one (glue gun) but find it not the easiest of tools to use when trying to minimise the glue.

Does it spread the load better than Cyno or is it more resilent or maybe the repairs are easier?

Erfolg

[Grant Darnley]

I prefer UHU POR, using the smear first then leave for ten mins, then stick method.  Has always worked well for me.  Hot glue is probably just Daves preferred method.

 Actually, is this the flat carbon strips or diagonal bracing?  If its the strips then por will work, bracing needs something firm to hold onto hence the hot glue.  If you're still not keen then use a small disc of 64th ply(or another thickness of 3mm foam) over where the carbon enters the foam and use cyano

[Foamie Dave]

Hi Erfolg,

 POR is used for nearly all the construction (inc carbon strip), the glue gun is only used for the rigging.

 If you check mid way into the build instructions it should explain that a small dab of hot glue is used on the right and reverse sides of the rigging were it passes through the foam, ie the X rigging between the wings and the (optional) latticework on the rear of the fusleage.  Like Grant says this is to give the rigging something to hold onto and spreads the load a little.

Hope this helps.

[inspector9566]

hi erfolg

more or less finished my build i used por for every thing except the rigging as directed and had no problems its the first time i have worked with depron or played with electric so its a double learning curve for me dont touch the tip of the hot melt glue gun on the depron or you will end up with a hole (my only mistake) having said that its not in the air yet so fingers crossed.

I also had to cut a slot through the rudder stern post to fit the rear stab and elevator assembly as it wouldnt fit through the hole in the fus for the arc of the elevator and i didnt want to remove anymore material.

hope this helps and good luck.

Colin.

[Foamie Dave]

Hi Colin,

Glad it went together ok, cheers for the feedback

If youve never flown a superlight light bipe like this before, dont forget to use the rudder . its great for low knife edging !!

Happy Flying !!

[Erfolg]

Re:- Glue gun

It is my intention to use the UHU Por for the Foam and Foam friendly Cyno for the flat strip.

I was concerned about weight build up from the glue stick, I am now concerned about weight and burning a hole fastening the CF rigging.

Being very new to this type of construction I have no experience regarding methods or appropriate adhesives for the differing applications.

I am now quite concerned about the gun method. Can you use Cyno and micro balloons or some other method. Is the ply disc method appropriate (previously mentioned. Or if a gun must be used, a method/process of minimising weight and danger?

A Novice Foam Builder

Erfolg

[inspector9566]

Erfolg i used por for the rigging down the lenth of the fus and hot melt for the x brace rigging on the wings dont worry to much about melting holes in the depron let the hot melt glue dribble onto the joint without touching the tip of the glue gun on the depron and you will be ok.

i was also concerned about the waight i couldnt get hold of the motor (hacker 10-9L) had to settle for a hacker A20-50S so power to waight now not a problem so dont worry about it to much unless you need to be ultra light you always have the option of a bigger motor i could have got a 10-9L off ebay new but i like to support my local model shop as much as possable

Colin.

[inspector9566]

Hi Dave nice photo interesting rudder position for a very low knife edge.

did you forget the uc and have to adopt that position for take offs.

Colin.

[Erfolg]

When I learn to read, I will learn a lot more.

Am I correct in thinkinking that UHU Por sticks the CF rectangulat strip to the foam? Not Cyno as i thought?

Hate cyno, as I get it on my finger tips, leaving a hard area, this I cannot help myself in trying to pick it off.

Erfolg 

[inspector9566]

Erfolg yes thats correct use the por to glue cf strip to the depron also the por will give a lbit to absorb some impact where as the ca drys hard so is more brittle and is more likly to crack.

A tip for the ca on fingers soak fingers in warm soapy water it will soften the glue and comes off easier.

hope that helps

Colin.

[Erfolg]

What is the cyno used on?

The ply to foam?

Erfolg

[Foamie Dave]

You can use POR for all the assembly if you want and forget about the hot glue and cyno if you want. I just added smallest amount (and I mean small) of hot glue to the rigging fo re-enforcement.  a dab of cyno just to tack the CF strip in position until the POR drys..again not essential just my way of making things easy (Im just lazy )

If you dont feel comfortable with the  just use POR and it'll be fine.

Colin ..the pic was warming up for a knife edge limbo compertion  ...you cant lose wth this foamy !!

[inspector9566]

I used the ca for the horizontal sections that run down the lenth of the main fus the interplane struts and the wing to fus jionts as it gave me more time to assemble if you use por becouse it is a contact adhesive as soon as you touch it on itself its stuck so a bit fiddly if you get it wrong.

ca for foam to foam.

por for cf strip/fus rigging.

hot melt for wing x-brace rigging and under carraige.

I mounted my engine mount with ca and then fillet jointed the horizontal and vertical cross from the back with 12 minute resin i also ran a  fillet of resin from the back of the engine mount down the lenth of the fus 1 inch back on all four quarter joints to give a little more hold becouse of the larger motor i have fitted before mounting the lower fus fillet strips and motor bulkhead supports.

DON'T forget to build in the 1.5 down and 2. degree right thrust or you will have trim problems later.

Colin

[inspector9566]

Hi Dave I havent flown indoors before I took on this prodject to get more stick time over the winter as my flying suffered last year  I got very nervous at the beginning of the year when i first started to fly  my funtana 90s I have an 88" yak 54 with 50cc petrol in her that i havent plucked up enough courage to fly this year £1700 worth of scary!!!! so in-door is a must for this year should do me alot of good I have heard that a sports hall turns into a telephone box as soon as you take off so im going to practice in a telephone box (if i can find one) and hope it turns into a sports hall.

Colin.

[Erfolg]

This will most probably seem a daft question to you guys who ahve built this type of model.

How do you cut the CF especially the 1mm dia stuff? A needle file, or are there better ways.

Erfolg