The Wright Stuff Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Posted by Neil67 on 16/08/2018 14:28:11: I think that's where I started - however others defended its creation as being acceptable. Difficult to summarise this debate without broadening the topic, because we all seem to be looking at different aspects of this. I would attempt to reconcile by saying that 'acceptable' is quite ambiguous here. Yes, plastic is polluting our oceans, it is not desirable. However, it is a price we have to pay to live the lifestyles that we do. If we don't like it, we need to change our lifestyles. We can't have the best of both worlds. In the context of the shipment of modelling items from China being negligible in their polluting effect compared to the billions of mainstream items: food, electronics, clothing and cosmetics, I would say that a small amount of excess plastic packaging on a relatively small number of items from a globally small supplier is a reasonable price to pay. If we accept that it is a price to pay for the goods we receive, then yes, we have to admit it is acceptable, although perhaps not desirable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wright Stuff Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 David, I agree completely, but we are talking different scales. By, 'we', I mean you and me, the modeller, who buys a few bits from Hobbyking now and again. I could try to specify biodegradable packaging next time I place a Hobbyking order, but I doubt it will have any impact! So, the choice we have is to buy or not to buy. We change our lifestyles by not buying it, if no alternative currently exists. If by 'we' you mean 'mankind' or 'governments' or 'global manufacturing chains', then yes, I agree with you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 I enjoy reading threads like this, I'm very cynical about it though, global companies should deal with this ? they stomped all over the less damaging businesses and we jumped aboard promptly and lapped it up. Who's to blame ? We are, and we ain't going to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 "they stomped all over the less damaging businesses" Which less damaging businesses? Anyway. I generalise, but, businesses of any size will cut whatever corners they can to get stuff* to you at the lowest cost possible to capture as much market share. To stop the corner cutting takes regulation, because customers most always go for lowest cost. I think that means our viable route to stopping environmentally unfriendly waste is via democratic process and government elect. Time for a politics thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Plenty of small business has disappeared that sold local or U.K product, you could buy it loose or in 1-2s, usually a short walk from your house, and not much packaging, still one or two about I believe. I've even heard of things called model shops, heard they had "wrong business model" or sumat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Yep, it's us to blame, you can pass the book if it (makes you feel better though). We created the mess, our job to fix it, notice (no swearing nor asterixs) Don't leave your mess for others to clean up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 If only there was local stuff available eh, could call it Solar film or sumat. I like H.K film, guilty as charged m'lud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatscoleymo Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 ' 'll explain what I mean, using electric cars bought by Norwegian nationals as an example. A third of all new cars sold in Norway are electric or hybrid and next year that will rise to over 40%. Why? Because the government has subsidised them to such an extent that buying and running a fossil fuel powered car in Norway is actually more expensive than buying and running electric or hybrid. To borrow your phrase, Norwegians have jumped aboard and are lapping it up. What has changed is that the Norwegian government has made it possible for the technology offered to be affordable. Notice that the Norwegian government didn't do it by taxing fossil fuel cars out of existence. They did it by making electric cars cheaper. As they say..... you'll catch more flies with sugar than vinegar. ' --- Norway can do that because they have abundant cheap electricity supplied by their hydro electric schemes - they've got lots of mountains and lots of precipitation and they invested heavily from their North Sea Oil Revenues to build the infrastructure. Not a model that is available to all countries.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetenor Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 A funny thing is that the least amounts of packaging I get is from the Chinese suppliers like Bang Good . As another point I bought some props on very special offer cost £0:02 p From HK.. Customs duty £13:10 p Yellow sticker on package stating "Goods not fulfilling the conditions laid down in articles 28 and 29 of the treaty on the functioning the European Union" Tried Google but not found it. Anyone know what it means? Tried to contact HMRC for refund but keep getting pushed from dept to dept. HELP £13:10 a bit much for 2p purchase doncha think. Edited By onetenor on 16/08/2018 22:48:23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin 216 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Hi Onetenor The treaty is commonly know as the 'Treaty of Rome' the explanation (unfortunately in the usual gobblygook)of your sticker can be found at: :http//tompai.pro/ecommerce/goods-not-fulfilling-conditions-laid-articles-28-29-treaty-functioning-european-union/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatscoleymo Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 David - not harsh, accurate. As you later post acknowledges I was pointing out that Norway's model is a bit 'special' for a few reasons. I take your point about 'abundant' electricity, but they can produce it as and when they want without having to buy fossil fuels to do so, and as you say they are a net exporter of electricity. Norway and the UK's total oil production from the North Sea since the early 70's are roughly at the same level, however Norway has enjoyed well over twice, almost 3 times the tax revenue that the Uk has - a combination of higher tax take on the oil production and 50% state ownership of the Oil company which in itself generated for the govenment dividends etc. That revenue has been wisely invested abroad and Norway now has a huge state suplus in the fund set up to look after those revenues. But the big difference is that the UK has around 65 million citizens and Norway just 5.3 million...so per capita those oil revenues have been around 25-30 times higher! A lot of money to invest however they want to. Norway (as all the Scandanavian countries) also has much higher taxation that the UK - approaching 50% as against around the 35-36% in the UK. It's citizens enjoy just about the highest standard of living in the world, while paying high taxation at the same time. However they are grumbling at the moment - about 50% of government spending on transport is going into electric car infrastrucure - while only 5% of journeys are by electric cars....some say that ain't fair.... The modern world is a very complex place, no simple answers, no one size fits all. I'm a true believer in looking around at how others do it, seeing what seems to work and learning, implementing from that. Interestingly, the Danes are the most heavily taxed nation in the world....they also come out on top as the worlds happiest nation...can a lesson be learned from that? Fats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 5.3 m I'm actually stunned to learn that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich too Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 I agree with a lot of points made, you cannot blame the average consumers for buying the cheapest products even if that means they buy from China. It is up to the legislators to sort out this mess. For instance, why on earth do we send so much of our waste overseas? Frankly, that’s outrageous and shouldn’t be happening at all. There’s no excuse for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glyn44 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Also there’s nowhere to drive to in Norway, so electric cars ok for nipping down the shop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 I would imagine sending our waste overseas is done because someone else can get rid of it cheaper than we can here. Whether or not they are doing so in an environmentally friendly way, etc, etc. As regards the electric cars thing in this country, at some point in the future we will be charging them on a balance of power generation that involves more "renewable". re, local fruit and veg, local farm shops, etc. Every single "local" shop round our way is far more expensive than the local supermarket. And we're way past the family model where one worked and one spent all the time running the house and had the time to do big round trips of all the local shops. Because everyone works, now everyone has to work, the bar is raised. There's another discussion though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 We could deal with it here, build the factories, employ the people ? it would probably cost more though, folk might not like that, nor want the plant near their homes. Last time I looked the warehouses are full to busting with our rubbish, do/did we send loads of it to China ? I think China has had a rethink on accepting it, I could be wrong though was a while since I read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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