LiPo Balance Connectors

[Mouldy]

A copy of part of an email from Ian watson of Flightpower :-

With regard to there not being a standard to balancing, well, it’s getting that way. I should think that back in the days when IC engines were first coming onto the scene, glow plug diameter and threads were different, crank shafts different sizes etc, but now its all pretty much standard, down to the dimensions, but that has taken many years. Electric flight has only been around seriously for about 4 or 5 years, so it’s still fairly new. We, Multiplex and ThunderPower use the same balancing plug, most Chinese lipos come with the JST-XH plug, and so do the ripmax ones, but they wire there ones different, so do polyquest! All very confusing. Chargers such a the Bantam BC6, which features a built in balancer and power supply, can cater for pretty much all types of lipo balancing.

[David Mayne 2]

Wow, Just speed read that lot and guess what, we are being taken for mugs,  there are so many cells to each pack so the "balancer can do its job if the connections are standardised!  I'm in the same boat myself cos I now want to buy some more Lipos but trying to find those with Enerland connections (other than poly pro-good the but now expensive!and Overland seem to have moved the goalposts!)   There are so many wires to fit the number of cells so there SHOULD be a STANDARD so that we don't Blow our house up - or model!)   This should go to trading standards or a similar body (Eu Regs?) so that all balancers and leads do not cause a disasterous accident - which they are meant to avoid!!      We are being taken for mugs and i am on the verge of reverting to good old "glow"  to avoid being taken for a ride!  What are the modeling press and othe national bodies doing about it?      

 At least "somebody could produce some conversion leads that do the job  but what about H&E if it goes wrong?

RCM&E should nail this and soon

Had my rant! 

Regards David

[Tim Mackey]

As is often quoted.......

" the great thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from ! " 

Can't see how you can expect a modelling magazine to take the rap.

[David Mayne 2]

I'm not blaming the mag, merely saying that they can publisize the problem and help resolve the issue.   Considering the cost of lipos and the need to balance cells, it is anti- marketing to use different connections.  I rate it as bad as a battery company changing the colour of pos and neg leads, but they comform to a standard( on safety issues!) so why not do the same for balancer connections.    We will only stick or change to a different manufacturer based on quality and price, so why make it complicated and possibly introduce a safety risk.   Maybe an article by one of the gurus could examine all examples of balancer conections wire by wire and highlight the differences and try and prompt a standard set up. I had decided to stick with poly pro but these are no longer suitable as overtec have changed their supplier, but why change the balancer leads? I dont need more bits to carry around! It seems the manufacturer is in charge, but it should be the customer- you and me!

regards

[David Ashby - Moderator]

We did David - see my article in the August issue

I wrote a piece specifically on this issue as I was annoyed as you. I highlighted the four main balance plug types that you'll come across and covered basic balancing per se. I looked at all the popular balacers too and commented on their connectability and versatility given that some will balance through more than one plug type.

We can't change the industry, that's down to consumer power/choice but we can highlight the problem, which we did. 

[Mouldy]

What balance connector is fitted to the Dualsky packs?

[Tim Mackey]

JST XH  - this one.....

[Mouldy]

happy days!!!

Thanks mucka!!!

[David Mayne 2]

hi David,

Did reply earlier but seems to have got lost(not logged on?).

It was actually your article that made me aware that my connectors are Enerland( I think).   With Overtec changing their balancer plug to something else (not specified) and having read earlier comments regarding modifying or making up leads to suit which can go wrong and potentially can be disasterous for lipos or electronics, I do not fiddle with something I know little about.  As  a new electric flyer,my poly-pro balancer has only been used a few times( what with the weather this year) , I am loath just have the use of it for 3 batts but could get by with replacement leads. I note that overtec now sell a Tornado one but is this the same?  I bought all my kit at a local model shop which has changed hands and now doesnt intend to use Overtec as a supplier.  

My email to Overtec (logical start) has yet to produce an answer. Also they don't appear to be selling lipos in the size range that I wish to purchase.   I am totally confused on what is the best way to go.  i dont really want to clutter the box up with a different set o balancers each time I buy a battery. Let alone the expense

I have been reseaching other suppliers but there doesnt seem to be much that relate to conversion leads for my bit of kit.  Do you convert the battery end or the balancer end?

Would be nice to see a definative article showing how this is all wired up and how conversion leads work, but suggestions on a good quality (but not too costly) make of lipos that I can get converson leads for, would be good.    I also found that there are similar "debates" in the rest of the world.   I think the best way to go for the customer is to stick with a particular set of plugs and force the industry to standardise as in VHS/ Betamax.      Seems I made the wrong choose already thanks to the modelshop!

I just want to build and fly and charge my lipos safely!!

Regards David Mayne 2

[David Ashby - Moderator]

Thanks David,

I have Li-Pos with all the four main plugs and get by on converter leads using two balancers. I have a flightpower v-balance (as converter leads for their packs do seem to be in short supply) and a Ripmax EQ5 which has an Ennerland output but converter leads handle the JST types too.

Not ideal I agree. I'm still trying to find an electric flight 'expert' who can write us a piece covering the areas you mention. Even at distributor level I've found that expertise is limited to the brand they sell and sometimes not even that. 

Some packs do seem to be wired differently to others so stripping back heatshrink would be the name of the game and that's something I wouldn't encourage readers to do even if we had an article written by an expert.   

[Mouldy]

What info are you looking for ref connectors then?

[Tim Mackey]

Establishing the wiring sequence of the various packs is achieved relatively easily with a DVM and some fine pointed probing. It is of course imperative to be very careful to avoid shorting the connectors.

I know it snot the ideal solution....but it can help. 

[David Mayne 2]

Thanks to all for responding,  I think i have sorted out my "short term" requirements as RCM Direct have answered the call and told me that my unit has what Sangeel calls Hyperon/ polyquest connectors and he has converter leads to the Hi Power batts that he sells (which I think are XT type - must make notes when I visit the various websites!), so I have taken the plunge and bought some 20C 3s lipos as well (which I try to run at about 10C for long life).  I'll report back if any more info is supplied.

Most other suppliers only seem to offer converter leads from their old lipos to their new lipos,  sometimes with plug type info but few seem to cover the Enerland type.  I like to see it in writing as the verbal word can be unreliable (already been caught by this!)

Having had a closer look at my present balancer, the leads to 3s and 2s are dealt with by apparently shorting out the output for the cells that are not there! (My balancer goes up to 4s only). It must be clever electronics in the unit.  Of course they only provide instructions to use (basically plug it in!)but no diagrams or details on what it is doing.

Of course the diy approach works if you have the right plugs - Enerland plus the new type to start with,  at least the new set of leads will give me a clue.  Remember I am new at this!   Maybe as i build up my sets of lipos I can justify extra electronic kit-- but I need to get out there, building and flying more!!

Regards to all

[Tim Mackey]

Glad to hear that it seems to be getting sorted.

[David Mayne 2]

Just to correct some earlier errors the lipos I have ordered is XH type (fairly common) and with luck the converter leads should be ok.

I noticed that David uses the EQ-5  which also has Enerland output and converter leads are available.   It was interesting to reread Davids article as the "new" Tornado smart balancer seems a good versatile kit   which is now priced t £25.   This has a dedicated output socket, and then used leads with enerland and 2mm and 2.5mm plugs to couple to other battery types, as David explained,  whereas my balancer leads runs direct to a 4s enerland. 2s and 3s leads effectively short out leads to give correct cell count.     I have the feeeling that charging at up to 5 amps is achieved by the two outer leads (bit small!) and the feed back via the others is used to balance the cells.  I would be interested if there are any knowledgeable types who can explain the workings?

I also spotted some leads for the EQ-5  where the shorting out seems to occur at either end of the cell count - am i right?    And whats this about?   Hate not knowing what I am using.

Regards to all

[Tim Mackey]

The flight power V balancer is used as an "inline" style balancer, and charging is done through the normal main power leads. The balancer plug is connected simultaneously to the device and effectively just ( after measuring the potential differences ) "shorts out" any cell which is creeping up a bit high, to bring it back down to the lowest cell in the pack at the time. When used as a stand alone device, it ( along with others ) uses the same shunting principle to level the cells. Some devices use a dedicated balance plug for each pack configuration EG 2 s 3 s 4 s etc with the corresponding number of individual wires / pins.

Others use a large multipin plug, and the balancer unit reads what is connected and does the necessary config internally to just act on the "occupied" wires IYSWIM

Any balancer which does not utilize the power leads to charge through must inevitably have to wired with cable large enough to carry the maximum potential charging current  ( 1XC )

[David Mayne 2]

 Now that I have my leads, I can understand what a lot of the diy solutions meant.   These leads from RCM Direct purely convert the lipo end of the lead so say 3 wires to each plug for each lead, 4and 5 etc for the different cell count. So I presume that the original leads must be used (with existing shorted terminals so as not to confuse the balancer) - bearing in mind that this unit sends out directly to an enerland socket wired for 4cells.

Interestingly both sockets are 2mm spacing, its only the plastic that makes them "special".    Overtec did eventually reply with a "No - please buy the new smart balancer which provides all the leads for 2mm and 2.5mm sockets"   Didn't mention what sockets they mean though, but I suspect this unit is as per David's article.

Think I will stick for now and maybe when I build up my stock of batteries, I will treat myself to a new all purpose charger/balancer unit, so that I can charge more than one lipo at a time.  Seems they all take about an hour to fully charge so you would need 5 batts to keep on top of them at the field but then the SLA will give out so number of batts more important but would be useful at home.  At least I have 5 now, but 2 of those are 2S and I wont be buying anymore as they limit the type of plane - bad choice really but I started with an  ARTF with provided speed 600.

Thanks to all

David Mayne2

[Mike Downs]

I have just recieved a pair of Li Po 's from Overlander, the pproblem I face is the balance plugs are not compatabile with the balancer that I have ( Overlander supplied Poly-PRO balance guard) I have looked on the web site but am unable to find a balancer that will take take the same plugs.

    I have read through the forum and note that I am not alone on this point, but I had hoped that by sticking to the same supplier at least the connector plugs would be compatible or at least have some replacement leads for the poly PRO balance guard would be available

[Tim Mackey]

I suggest an email to overtec to get this sorted...as you say, the supplier should have ensured compatibility between his devices...especially considering their earlier "advice"

[David Mayne 2]

John, I have to sympathise with you as I have a poly pro balancer and was aware they had changed their battery supplier and had different leads.   David Ashby did a good article in the August RCME which covered the 4 known types of balance connectors then but Overtec do not state what their new ones are,  but offer a new balancer. 

I got my new ones elsewhere (RCM Direct) as they do cheap conversion leads - as do brc models.  Good info on both websites!

Maybe you will be able to work out  what the new ones are   and get suitable  conversion leads.  Would be nice if all the retailers published the required information.  Overtec do a conversion lead but no information apart from pin spacing.    They have lost my custom!  

Good luck!   Regards

[Tim Mackey]

They lost mine years ago...just about the time they made a big PR announcement at Weston ( or was it Cosford ?) over the PA about how they were now "Overtec" and had appointed a fancy new marketing guy.

Oh the joys of expanding ones business

Website is still as bad as ever it was...and as for Tornado brand stuff  -

[jimmyboy]

Hi,  I've just bought a 11.1, 3300mm amp battery and the balance plug only fits in the 14volt socket in my esky charger where as my other batteries fit in the 11.1 socket. Is there a mutii adapter available to suit all batteries, please. I don't suppose It would be agood idea to plug my 11.1 battery into the 14 volt socket.

Jim

[Tim Mackey]

Well actually it may well be OK to plug it into the  4cell balance socket - it could well be wired up so that it onlu actually utilizes the 3 cell configuration connections of that socket. lets have some pictures of the plug.