Crash dummy Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Hi guys,Electric flight interests me, but i cant get into my head the concept of a 5minute flight.As a "glow" model pilot i can easily get 20 minutes (with a good margin for error) from my Calmato Sport 40. I know that an electric version of that aeroplane exists. I would be very interested to hear from anyone who has one, or can just supply me with reliable details. I dont have my head in the clouds (sorry!) but although i realise electric flight is probably the way forward i want a few bangs per buck! My questions relating to the Calmato are as follows.1 What battery pack2 approx flight time3 vital equipment to use that or a similar aeroplane.I look forward to any replies, in the meanwhile i will continue to deplete the ozone layer with my engine powered aeroplanes!Regards,John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Rigg Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Hi John - as soon as you've experienced going to the flying field with just a plane, TX and a couple of batteries in your pocket, you'll quickly forget about those oily, noisy troublesome IC planes and the associated carload of clutter need to get them in the air....As for 5 min flights, it all depends - certain plane/battery combinations can yield 10-15 mins no problem, it all depends what you want and how much you're prepared to spend I guessAs for your specific questions, I'm sure others here can supply the info you need Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash dummy Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 Many thanks Nick.John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Richards Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 John, I fly both Electric and IC and enjoy both I have 2 WOT4s 1 IC and the other Electric. They are different to fly mainly do to the weight difference (I built the electric one really light and the IC one has had many repairs) but duration is not a factor the electric one will fly for 15-20 minutes which is long enough for me I often have 2 shorter flights rather than one long one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott cuppello Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I don't think I have ever seen an IC flyer fly for 20 mins! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash dummy Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 Many thanks Bruce, I can see the obvious benefits of electric flight, but equally i see the drawbacks. Your comparison of the two WOT4s is a great starting point for me. I still hope there is somebody out there who can give me similar info on Calmato Sport.Scott, you probably never noticed anyone flying ic for 20 minutes because you were too busy changing battery packs!Regards,John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Harris Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 Two data points: E-Flite Mini Pulse XT. 250W motor, 2000mAh 20C 3S Lipo -- 22 mins Extreme Flight Extra300 58" wingspan1500W motor15x8 prop4200mAh 20C 6S lipo2x7min flights=14 mins, battery discharged to 1/3. Two flights because the concentration required is fairly high.Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash dummy Posted November 1, 2008 Author Share Posted November 1, 2008 Thanks for your reply Andy. All INFORMATION is very welcome. I am a great believer in practical experience. As such i am noting and will continue to note all replies. Everything looks great in a mail order catalogue as we both know, in your workshop or at the field it may not be exactly "what it says on the tin". I am as originally stated, looking for someone with, or experience of the Kyosho Calmato Sport. Perhaps someone will send me a view for Christmas! Who cares! We will have a couple of feet of snow on the ground by then anyway!!!! Regards, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Harris Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 One of our members has a Calmato IC version. Its a fairly large wingspan.Since I started this hobby all electric I've built up a feel for what is roughly right, then adjust propping to optimise. I have a WattMeter for static testing. The other useful data point I have is for a Graupner Saphira:linkage1100W Motor14x8 prop3700mAh 4S lipoThis gives a 7 min flight time, however in the circuit it will out accelerate the IC Calmoto. Its my 12yo son's plane and he really does not want the prop changed. He has a tendency to fly under the ESC reduces or ever cuts the power to the motor, this will shorten the life of the battery.The Motor-ESC-Battery were donated from my ill fated Dualsky 260 that literally disintigrated probably because it was over powered. We also had a Kysho Spree Sport that had a similar fate on a 190W motor. Timbo has warned elsewhere of over powering. I digress, the point being power.v.time, I tend towards the 200W/lb end of the range and use batteries that take the model to, or slightly above the AUW. I check the maximum amps on the kitchen table knowing that in the air the motor will unload a little. I would recomment budget-rc for their range of big Lipos, but the website is down at the moment.Regards AndyPS, the reason I use up all the AUW is so that landings are not too floaty and wind penetration is improved. For one field I use the runway is short and narrow. Pushing the AUW may not be the right approach, I'm an intermediate flyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash dummy Posted November 1, 2008 Author Share Posted November 1, 2008 Many thanks Andy for your reply. I think we may be slightly at odds though. I have a Calmato Sport 40 (IC) and am now looking for someone who has an electric version of that aeroplane. Once again many thanks for your reply and comments, all of which are well noted. John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mackey Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 I think what Andy is trying to say is the the powertrain he listed for his Saphira would be suitable for you Calmato. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott cuppello Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 John Barber wrote (see)Many thanks Bruce, I can see the obvious benefits of electric flight, but equally i see the drawbacks. Your comparison of the two WOT4s is a great starting point for me. I still hope there is somebody out there who can give me similar info on Calmato Sport.Scott, you probably never noticed anyone flying ic for 20 minutes because you were too busy changing battery packs!Regards,JohnNope, that's not it.......maybe it's because IC engines cut out so often when they are not supposed to that the guys I fly with don't temp fate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash dummy Posted November 1, 2008 Author Share Posted November 1, 2008 I dont know where or who you fly with Scott but even my humble GX40 never cuts out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash dummy Posted November 1, 2008 Author Share Posted November 1, 2008 So There! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Chaddock Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 JohnTo go back to your original post, do you have a reason to be converted? There are pros and cons to each. If maximum duration is important then obviously stick with IC but if clean and quiet is required then electric is better. Incidentally some of the ducted fan types can realistically only be done with electric power.The real issue is that "electric" is now a viable alternative for RC flight, it certainly wasn't 20 years ago, so try it and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Foreman Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Well was down at the field on Saturday, the IC guys manage maybe 4 to 6 flights of about 10 min duration over a 3 hour period, due to various engine problems, dead sticks, under powered (badly tuned) cutting out on the way to the strip etc.. I took my Dualsky Extra 260, MPX Twister EDF and a warm liner glider (Guppy free plan off the tinternet). I managed 5 flights with the Twister and 3 flights with Dualsky and 1 flight with the glider, then I got cold and went home. The Twister jet flies for 6 min, the Dualsky 8 min and the glider flies for about 45 min. I field charge batteries while flying the other models. I generally don't get chance to watch my IC compatriats as I'm too busy flying . PS - Duration would be longer on the Dualsky if it wasn't using the batteries I trashed in the EDF, but its all part of the learning curve. Will be treating it to new batteries for next flying season. Batteries the bane of my other halfs life! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ashby - Moderator Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 I can relate to that experience Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash dummy Posted November 5, 2008 Author Share Posted November 5, 2008 Once again many thanks for your replies. In answer to your question Simon i have no real wish to be converted. I was and still am interested in the idea of electric aircraft and thought a thread with that title might (as it has) provoke a decent response. My main concern other than flight time is of course batteries. These (within the context of model power) seem to be extremely fragile, or dare i say it, as awkward as any engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kearsley Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Hi John,Well I think you certainly drew a good response with the thread title you used! Of course, there's no need to be "converted" to or from anything really. I started out with all electric models and only recently assembled my first I.C. model. I like both, for different reasons.I thought I must reply though over your perception of batteries, presumably LiPos. They aren't "fragile" or "awkward" - honestly! If you charge them correctly then they are, in my experience anyway, entirely safe. It's true that LiPos are enclosed in a flexible case rather than a rigid one like most batteries, but, again, if you don't do something daft then it's not a problem. For me, the big advantage of electric power is that you can chuck a model in the back of the car and fly two or three batteries-worth in a spare half-hour. You don't need the paraphernalia of flight-box and there's no cleaning off the slime at the end - easy! As I said though, I'm not in any way knocking I.C. - they're just different!Cheers,Tim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Foreman Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Batteries the bane of my other halfs life - basically she hates the pleasure I take in measuring watts (late night full power runs in the kitchen) the whirring fans and beeps of charging 12 Lipos on two chargers over the course of an evening, when the beeping starts she looks at me in a very annoyed way to tell me, "batteries beeping love!" and then there are all the agonising discussions on why the batteries are loosing capacity, and which batteries I need to buy next time which might last longer etc... My new theory I've picked up along the way is to downrate C ratings by 70% to make the batteries last longer, for instance a 2200 3s1p 20C battery could be used at 44A (2.2 * 20), but it doesn't last as long as using it at 30.8A (2.2*20*0.7) like I said, batteries the bane of my other halfs life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bott - Moderator Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 John I don't know your plane sorry, but I fly lots of 40 sized models on 6S A123 batteries. These differ from LiPo's in that they are almost indestructible, entirely safe, are very long lasting and can be charged in 10 minutes. Full power lasts right to the end of the flight, they even run out almost instantly - just like I/C. They are a little heavier than similar LiPos, but you can use every last drop, unlike Lipo's Have a look on the forum for other threads on A123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mackey Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Tom Foreman wrote (see)Batteries the bane of my other halfs life - basically she hates the pleasure I take in measuring watts (late night full power runs in the kitchen) the whirring fans and beeps of charging 12 Lipos on two chargers over the course of an evening, when the beeping starts she looks at me in a very annoyed way to tell me, "batteries beeping love!" and then there are all the agonising discussions on why the batteries are loosing capacity, and which batteries I need to buy next time which might last longer etc... My new theory I've picked up along the way is to downrate C ratings by 70% to make the batteries last longer, for instance a 2200 3s1p 20C battery could be used at 44A (2.2 * 20), but it doesn't last as long as using it at 30.8A (2.2*20*0.7) like I said, batteries the bane of my other halfs life Using Lipos at around 50% of maximum claimed C rate is common practice amongst experienced leccy fliers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash dummy Posted November 9, 2008 Author Share Posted November 9, 2008 Well, I guess that pretty much somes it up! (unless of course you lot out there no otherwise!). The idea of just wombaling down to the field without half a ton of kit and only a couple of batt packs in my pocket sounds great. In practice that just aint true. Tim(and others who have replied)on the other hand seems to manage well enough by doing just that. My original question asked if any of you had the electric version of the Calmato Sport. As yet nobody who has one has replied, although i have from others received set up info for similar sized aeroplanes. Ive learned alot this week from your views, please keep them up. Thanks, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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