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Bob Wright free plan Morane saulnier 35 EP2


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Hi there, I thought I would share a model build I have commenced in the last week. I was fortunate to get a copy of a Bob Wright plan which was published a good number of years ago. I have had great difficulty in finding a copy of it anywhere. Luckily I posted on this site and was kindly given a pdf file of the plan.( many thanks Kevin). 

I am not sure why this plan kinda disappeared.

Bob Wright seemed to have published a number of plans of a long period by the looks of things, one called "the flea" was mentioned.

Do anyone recall Bob Wright and his modeling history in RC. He was 80 years of age when he published the Morane Saulnier 35. A parasol wing on a 35 FP engine  

I built it at the time and remembered it flew well. I am not sure actually what happened to it now.

Anyway I have made a start on it and as usual for I like to start the rudder and tails. I do this get some commitment on the project and feel a good start has been made.

This build is starting just as I are finishing restoring a 49 year derelict caravan which my dear wife purchased a couple of years ago and sat down the back paddock until last year. A year's solid work completed and it's almost done.

Well that's the introduction and I will post a few pictures when progress allows. Cheers Steve NZ

 

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Edited by Steve Fox
Grammar
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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi folks, I have made a good start on the plan over the last few weeks as we are heading into our autumn.

The fuselage is well underway. The planning of the battery and servos had to be done very early in the piece as the CG position is very forward in this short nose plane.

Construction of the fuselage is straight forward enough. I soon found that it is best to leave off the side formers that create the rounded shape of the fuselage until you have completed the installation of the servos etc. I kept bumping them and breaking them which became a pain.

I have had to alter the forward part of the fuselage to accommodate the lipo battery and servo department to really get and keep the weight as forward as possible.

I happened to have a couple of alloy servo trays not been made use of and they worked out really handy to fit in the servos. 

Cheers Steve NZ

 

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Your thoughts 

I am looking at reducing the tail plane and fin by about a third to make it more scale like. Bob Wright noted in his drawings that he I increased the tail group to add stability and he was building rudder only.

Mine will have aileron 

I'm I risking trouble here

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I think that most of Bob Wrights plans were without ailerons for some reason, but fitting ailerons seems a good idea.   Normally fitting ailerons to a rudder only design would also mean reducing dihedral.   However the photo seems to show only slight dihedral so it would seem OK to leave it as designed.

   

As far as reducing the tailplane +fin to scale size is concerned I would personally build as plan as you can expect it to fly well.    The tailplane in that colour drawing looks extremely small compared to the wing.  The classic proportions for sports models ( from Chuck Cunningham decades ago in RCM etc) usually specify tailplane inc elevator as 20 to 25 percent of total wing area  inc ailerons, with 22 percent being usual.  Tailplane span then is 1/3rd wingspan with chord 1/3 tp span, elevator 25percent t/p chord.   If the tailplane as drawn conforms roughly to the classic proportions leave it alone!    However just adding ( or subtracting ) a small amount all around a tailplane can add ( or subtract) a lot of area without changing the actual linear size or looks very much.  Bob W may just have done that.  Reducing AREA by a third may not change looks or size very much.  Reducing SPAN by a third might make a big difference to looks and performance.

 

A plane that looks nice and flys well is a worthwhile model, while a plane that is exact scale but flys like a pig is of little use!  Just my view - it's your model.

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Hi K

Thanks for the great reply.

I thought about it over night and decided to just shape it slightly in the fin by a small amount which had given it a more pleasing look with very little reduction of area.

Yes Bob W had built in 3 degrees of dihedral as it was planned to be rudder only  

He himself commented on the small tail group and enlarged the total areas. 

It was the shape of the fin that I felt didn't look quite right. Will leave every thing else alone 

Has been raining here the last couple of days so have been able to do more on the build.

Started the wire bending which I already battle with ,but seemed to have done ok on this occasion 

Cheers Steve 

 

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Oh  yes I had wondered about the dihedral situation.

I can't remember now when I first built this model whether I had ailerons fitted  or not.

I think leaving the dihedral as it is would be OK, I often fly models by just the rudder as it always good practice for landings.

Cheers Steve 

Edited by Steve Fox
Grammar
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  Hi Steve, Pics of Morane Saulnier 35's Show a flat wing with no dihedral and if if fitting ailerons I would build it so or just a degree or two so as not to have the drooped wing look that a flat wing can have.  With small servos fitting ailerons in a parasol wing aeroplane is not the problem it used to be when one had to work out linkages to a standard servo in the fuselage.  The pendulum effect of a parasol type makes up for a lack of dihedral.

    It was often the case that tail areas were increased when models were mostly flown free flight, rudder only or rudder elevator.[ my rc assist Veron Cardinal has reduce dihedral and tail span reduced by a quarter] Ailerons on a wing with a lot of dihedral are not much good with out rudder. This is the case with my Major Mannock where rudder is still the primary control despite the barn door ailerons.  Pic 1 Mannock , Pic 2 Newport with flat wing, Pic 3 Cardinal.

  How you want it to fly is up to you, either old model type or more like the full size. Cheers and good building. John.

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20230409_162155.thumb.jpg.960e2f7956cdc907f5e512ed68844af0.jpgThanks for the reply, great looking models. Interesting points about the dihedral. I will leave a couple of degrees in to avoid the droopy wing look.

I like to fly a slow and considered style, particularly the older style like the Morane. I feel the importance of this to observe in some way how the original full size sat in the air and how it would have looked back in the day.

Cheers Steve NZ

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Edited by Steve Fox
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Steve, nice to see the progress.    The tailplane looks well braced with the trianglular blocks, but I wonder if you have ever tried inserting a sliver of 1/64 ply into a sawcut through the end joints.  Adds no real weight but toughens up the joint to withstand the inevitable bashing when putting into the car etc.  Forms a type of mortice and tenon joint ( with 'loose' tenon ) with little effort if done at the present stage - just slice a razor sawcut thro ends and insert ply with glue.  Ply must be pushed in flush because it's a devil to sand ply afterwards.

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Steve, looking at your photos I wonder if I failed to describe my way accurately!    The way I do it is to have the razor saw cut parallel to the building board ( the green cutting board in your photo) therefore the 1/64 ply goes into the 1/4inch thick balsa ( I assume it's 1/4 by 3/8 in your model ) halfway through the thickness.   The cut is best made by having the tailplane vertical to ensure the blade goes straight down and diagonal to both TE and tip piece.

I guess a photo would be better than a thousand words so i will try to get a photo to illustrate the very simple cut.

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My photo shows how I insert the saw - it's a setup as  i needed my right hand to operate camera- the saw is actually in the wood though which is only 1/8 inch thick at this trailing edge.  To really do the cut I just pressed the tailplane against the edge of the bench in a similar vertical manner to the photo and sawed in on the diagonal.   Sawcut should go in until both bits have a sawcut.   As the saw cuts down the cut is flat bottomed and takes a straight bit of ply.    The ply is simply inserted where the saw is now, marked for trimming, withdrawn then cut with scissors and then reinserted with glue applied and pushed right in until hidden.  Takes just seconds.

 

 

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Edited by kc
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HI K

Right brilliant 

Will get on to it in the morning. Might not have read through correctly more likely. 

Have heavily involved in a community event this week so may have glossed over without reading it through properly. 

We had our first community giant pumpkin competition today as we are heading into our autumn.

Regards Steve 

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Hi, not much action to report today, I have been distracted with house hold events the last few days, I did manage to get some of the fuse covered with some green film I had about to get a idea of colours for the end project.

Currently on the bench I have my 20230416_174150.thumb.jpg.81dc2d0f1d7016870bcfcdff108853d2.jpg1/4 scale Fokker wait on a few items to arrive. 

Cheers Steve 

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Hi folks, again not much to report on the build of the Morane.We are wintering down the garden so all this week has been taken up with that.

Managed to get a flight in with the old Bixler which I can fly from the paddock next to us so better than nothing 

I messed around with the wheels for the Morane, experimenting with weathering them a bit which I like doing with some of my planes.

This Morane, a trainer from what I have read were well used in between the two wars so would have experienced wear and tear for sure.

The great thing is if I don't like the result, I can always re-paint them.

Cheers Steve 

 

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On 13/04/2023 at 22:26, J D 8 said:

  Hi Steve, Pics of Morane Saulnier 35's Show a flat wing with no dihedral and if if fitting ailerons I would build it so or just a degree or two so as not to have the drooped wing look that a flat wing can have.  With small servos fitting ailerons in a parasol wing aeroplane is not the problem it used to be when one had to work out linkages to a standard servo in the fuselage.  The pendulum effect of a parasol type makes up for a lack of dihedral.

    It was often the case that tail areas were increased when models were mostly flown free flight, rudder only or rudder elevator.[ my rc assist Veron Cardinal has reduce dihedral and tail span reduced by a quarter] Ailerons on a wing with a lot of dihedral are not much good with out rudder. This is the case with my Major Mannock where rudder is still the primary control despite the barn door ailerons.  Pic 1 Mannock , Pic 2 Newport with flat wing, Pic 3 Cardinal.

  How you want it to fly is up to you, either old model type or more like the full size. Cheers and good building. John.

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Thanks for your thoughts .love the planes, what is the model there you are hand launching 

Cheers Steve 

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Hi there ,Well the weather has cooled off a bit the last couple days, Sunday  I able to get out to our field which we use at a civil club airfield for full size. It not used overly much,but we have to have a radio to listen to air traffic and always two members present when there.

We usually hear them before seeing them and land straight away  

The full size pilots are really good about and often come over the chat with us.

Just a little completed today on the rudder horns. I am using these as it was all I had and trying to keep my budget right down, it will be a pull pull system so they should do the job ok.

Cheers Steve NZ

 

 

 

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Managed to have a go at soldering some of the undercarriage today. I have to admit I suck at soldering and it's something I have been practicing on this year as a side goal.

Anyway I felt my efforts this afternoon was reasonable and appears strong. 

I will fot the undercarriage on the plane on a temporary basis as this plane just wants to roll about on the bench all the time. 

Cheers Steve 👍 20230425_161709.thumb.jpg.03465287b7992e1d22ac046004765372.jpg20230425_155819.thumb.jpg.b8b35c93302a83b67d679adcbe2a116b.jpg

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi folks

Not been doing to much in the work shop as the weather has really started to cool off now as we had into winter.  Managed some work on the build this weekend as it was milder in temperature for some reason. I took advantage of this and built up the two wings in reasonable order during the two days Managed to completely mangle my Jemima (James Newberry plan) this morning at our local high school grounds. Completely my fault and annoyed with myself, but I have taken the lesson from it and will try to avoid a repeat.

Reading up on wing washout at present as the plan calls for it to be built in to the wingtip. Completed the task as per the plan so hopefully I get it right.

Cheers Steve NZ

 

 

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 Hi Steve, I missed seeing your April posts. The answer to your question about which model I am launching is its a Veron Cardinal modified for 2ch radio and powered by an original Mills P75 that's older than me. 

Just the other day someone left a pile of old mags at the field club house and there was the issue about the Bob Wright Morane still with plan still attached.  Gave it to a mate who is interested in small scale models.

  Cheers, John.

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Hi there 

Thanks for the info on the Veron, I like the look of it. 

Oh that's great you found that issue. Hopefully your mate may look at build it. It's funny that the plan is not available to buy online 

I imagine the weather is picking up for you over there ,early spring?? for you.. Cheers Steve New Zealand 

 

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