Mark Malach Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 Hello good people. I am looking for anyone who has built or has any info on building the Marutaka Bird Dog. I found one here locally and bought it. I got a really good deal on the kit but even though I do have a fair amount of experience building this kit it presents many challenges. For example, how does the horizontal stabilizer and vertical fin attach to the fuselage? Any help would be very welcome at this point. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 Welcome to the forum Mark. There is a section on this model here - but not much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 Some pictures of the plan Mark ? And welcome to the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Malach Posted December 21, 2023 Author Share Posted December 21, 2023 Hi John. I will get a few pics shortly. Cheers! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Malach Posted December 21, 2023 Author Share Posted December 21, 2023 The horizontal stab is just a basic built up open frame that is sheeted with balsa, there is no mention or anything on the plans that show how to attach it. Im assuming it just glues to the end of the fuselage which is open as well, all there is to glue to are the sides of the fuse and the balsa sheeting of the stab which in my opinion is not nearly strong enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 You could put a crossgrain balsa infil in to increase gluing area, keep it light though, weight at the back end can cause C.G issues (lump of lead up front). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Malach Posted December 21, 2023 Author Share Posted December 21, 2023 Agree with the weight issue. I always did my best to avoid adding extra weight for balance sake. I also agree with your suggestion about adding some more glue area. I might also look into possibly making the stab removable but again I will probably be dealing with extra weight. After 30 years of being away from building this old bird is real rusty lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 Your confidence will soon come back, servo placement etc will help get C.G as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Malach Posted December 21, 2023 Author Share Posted December 21, 2023 I could have started again with a much less complicated kit but like I was saying I found it here locally and the price was something I couldn't refuse. Living in such a small town makes it nearly impossible to find what you want or even remotely close to what you want. Yes, with time I will get up to speed again and things will be good. Cheers! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 You'll get all the help you want from members on here, there are no stupid questions, so don't be shy in asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Malach Posted December 21, 2023 Author Share Posted December 21, 2023 Appreciate that. Glad to be here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 The plan for a 1/6th scale Bird Dog might give you some ideas - it's here on Outerzone. Looks equally vague though! Plenty of other Cessna plans there too to get some ideas. Some ideas about corrugations for Cessnas there too. Frankly I think most people would advise building a simpler model first to get back into building and also build something that would get your flying back up to speed. Lots of things have changed in model materials and particularly in covering materials etc. Worth trying out on a small model first. Check out the range from Deluxe Materials for water based dopes and lots of special glues etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Malach Posted December 22, 2023 Author Share Posted December 22, 2023 (edited) Thanks Kc. Spent lots of time actually as an instructor but yes lots of time has passed since then. I do have a Sig Kadet that has been in the closet for almost 20 years and I am going to get it flying but to be honest when 1/4 scale cubs and 1/3 scale fly babys and so on is what you are used to I guess Im just being stubborn lol. The other thing after all this time that totally confuses me are the radios/transmitters, another learning curve. Edited December 22, 2023 by Mark Malach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ovenden Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 (edited) I also have the Marutaka Bird Dog kit waiting it's turn. The plan shows the servos in two different locations depending on the engine used. The plan shows an OS Gemini FS twin which is heavy. The plan shows the rudder and elevator servos way back in the fuselage because of this. Servos will need to mount much further forward if a single cylinder engine is used to get the CG correct. Edited December 22, 2023 by David Ovenden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ovenden Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 (edited) Mark, I've just got the Bird Dog plan out to look at. From the sketch drawing of the fuselage you can see that there is the fuselage side plus the doubler F25 to glue to. In addition there is the block F36 at the rear plus 2 formers F14 and F15 plus the front of the tailplane will glue to F13. That doesn't seem bad to me. But it would be easy to add some crossgrain balsa sheet infill as has already been suggested by John. The tailplane has reinforcing spars built in. The base of the vertical fin will need to be sanded to a snug fit with the top surface of the tailplane. But there are also the 2 substantial fillets F38 that will reinforce the joint either side. Well-fitting parts properly epoxied into place make an amazingly strong joint. I don't think you need to worry about the structural integrity. Edited December 22, 2023 by David Ovenden Spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ovenden Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 I found this video of a Marutaka Bird Dog with an OS FS120. Flies nicely and seems about the right power to me. Bird Dog video Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Malach Posted December 22, 2023 Author Share Posted December 22, 2023 Thanks David. This will be very helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Malach Posted December 22, 2023 Author Share Posted December 22, 2023 I also wonder if building washout into the wings is necessary. I want to do some nice scale detail but that would mean fiberglassing and paint which can add weight and since I am not that experienced with fiberglass I might just stay with iron on finishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ovenden Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 30 minutes ago, Mark Malach said: I want to do some nice scale detail but that would mean fiberglassing and paint which can add weight and since I am not that experienced with fiberglass I might just stay with iron on finishes. The full size is all painted metal so plastic film won't look too out of place and will most likely be lighted than glass-fibre and paint finishing. But not necessarily so of course. Some modellers on here are super proficient at getting a great finish with minimal weight gain. The glassfibre cowling and aluminium undercarriage at least will need painting though. Other areas hard to film cover would be the ailerons, flaps elevators and rudder that all feature a triangular "corrugated" surface. Quite tricky to film over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Malach Posted December 22, 2023 Author Share Posted December 22, 2023 Agree. So I was thinking about fiberglassing the rudder, elevator, ailerons and flaps and at least give those the respect they deserve. The only issue I know I might come up against would be matching paint and iron on colors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Malach Posted December 22, 2023 Author Share Posted December 22, 2023 However, this might not be such a big deal since many military paint schemes have different colored control surfaces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 14 hours ago, Mark Malach said: Thanks Kc. Spent lots of time actually as an instructor but yes lots of time has passed since then. I do have a Sig Kadet that has been in the closet for almost 20 years and I am going to get it flying but to be honest when 1/4 scale cubs and 1/3 scale fly babys and so on is what you are used to I guess Im just being stubborn lol. The other thing after all this time that totally confuses me are the radios/transmitters, another learning curve. Yes. radios have changed a lot and 2.4Ghz is almost universal now. It's not worth buying new batteries for any old radios in my opinion - modern radios have so many advantages ( many memories etc ) that you will want 2.4 especially if you are an instructor. The Spektrum wireless buddy system is very popular and this might determine which make you buy ( to match any pupils radio ) I guess you might be in USA judging by your spelling of 'colored' so it's worth saying that radio gear in Britian may be much the same as USA now but our Tx are more restricted in power. But 2.4Ghz is so much easier with no frequency clashes it's far superior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Malach Posted December 22, 2023 Author Share Posted December 22, 2023 Spelling was never my strong point lol. I'm actually in a small town in south central British Columbia. Canada presents it's own unique challenges when it comes to looking for affordable electronics or any product for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Malach Posted December 22, 2023 Author Share Posted December 22, 2023 Spektrum is a brand I have my eye on but I am seeing some positive reviews about FlySky and FrSky transmitters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 I was not sure whether Canada uses English spelling or USA spelling! British Columbia seems to be the centre for large but lightweight scale models - a big article in the latest RCME shows the various Ivan Pettigrew designs. That seems to be the way forward - electric models of 6 or 7 ft span weighing 4 or 5 pounds. Very low wing loading and needing only modest size motors and Lipos. Building skills rather than chequebook modelling ( or should that be checkbook modeling? ) The ARTF 'Bind and Fly' models often use Spektrum and these are popular with novices so that probably influences instructors choice of radio. But it varies a lot locally - some people hate Spektrum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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