Captain Slow Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Hi All, It's been a while since i last posted. I'm still working on my first ever build (Tony N Tiff from last year) but its getting closer to resembling a plane It's been a steep learning curve I'll admit What sort of filler should i use to fill the gaps between the sheeting etc? Can i use a normal polyfilla wood filler? Thx // CS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 In the past I would use Micro Balloons with epoxy resin, to fill large gaps, dents etc. I would like to say, with practice, there are no more large gaps, but that would not be true. I now use "Wickes, Master, Multi-Purpose Filler" it is ready mixed. More importantly it weights next to nothing, almost lighter than air. Fills well. If you have dents, try wetting first, often they rise pretty much back to the surface. I also use there water based varnish for laying glass cloth on these days. Erfolg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytilbroke Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 There are a number of very lightweight fillers availlable a couple which I have tried and found to be the same stuff with a different name. I did not get on with them due to them being water soluable. I think it possible in our damp climate that this stuff could "lift" under the heatshrink cover we tend to use. I was using them to surface fill though.. The little gaps you describe would probably be ok with this material. I have thought of trying Microfibre with the type of glue advised as good for sanding. Epoxy and microfibre/microballoons works well in the larger non-surface gaps. I have used a slow set epoxy as I have found the faster setting types get very fast when mixed with the microfibre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Ireland Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I've used these lightweight fillers myself with great results. To prevent the "lifting" as flytilbroke has experienced, I normaly paint over the filler with BalsaLoc before covering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Flttibroke With the Wickes filler, it is essential to paint with a water based varnish. Once this is done, there seems to be no trouble with water etc. Although i sand first, varnish later. Seems to work better than micro ballons and resin, for me. I found the resin ballon ratio difficult to get consistantly right, could be very hard and difficult to finish sand, even getting the shape acceptable could be an issue. Erfolg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemma Jane Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Erfolg, is this Wickes filler basically what they mean by 'spackle' in the states, I'm looking for something ultra light for filling foam before covering with tissue and Poly C, would this be the stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy watson Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 There is a polyfilla type of filler (same as spackle) available from B&Q which is described as lightweight on the tub. When you pick it up it feels like the tub is empty! I plan to use this on my build, as I have read really good reports about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Slow Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 Been to Wickes's's' and got a tub of the stuff erflog recommends tonight - its very light indeed and goes on a treat. I'm looking forward to some serious sanding action tomorrow. thanks // CS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo565 Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Captain. I use Wilkinsons All purpose interior filler,its water based and sands like a dream and it dries White. used it for years with no problems. jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 From my day time job, i have come in contact with many different "building materials", if one seems promising from a modelling view point, I will often give it a go. Also I am constantly looking out for materials that other modellers have suggested in magazines and this furum. One of the problems I have, is that the same basic product, will often be available, via differing suppliers, or from time to time "same thing, different brand name". These types of filler, seems to be a case in point, it could be what the USA calls "spackle". All I know is that it is light, shapes easily, sands well, but needs a final binder for longivity. I know that pollyfilla do something very similar (or the same). It is that some brands are very much cheaper than others, volume for volume. Trouble is, we modellers tend to use very little. Although i have been tempted to see if substantial flared roots can be done with the stuff, due to light weight. A similar position appears to be true with Water based varnish, the trade stuff is generally made available in very large volumes, but quite cheaply, the same product is expensive per volume when supplied for the DIY/small trade packs. Yet some will pay more for the trade stuff to be repackaged for modelling. Again it is not always exactly the same, but often does not matter to modellers. I now use it for laminating glass cloth. Blue foam is great used in combination with the above two types of product, as a 8'*4', by 2 inch sheet cost £10. Floats can be made cheaply, which can have a substantial hard shell. Whilst not being messy to make. I now use it for noses and wing tips. Do consider it viable for bodies and wings (as I have read about models using this material). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Blue foam is used extensively for 1/12 scale combat models. It's usually covered with ordinary brown paper soaked in thinned PVA and the result is an incredibly strong (and easily repairable) lightweight structure. A single layer of brown paper is used but overlapped at the wing join for a few inches. I've experimented with lightweight glass cloth/water based varnish but have returned to the traditional method. The models pull some incredible G loads with barely noticeable (if any) wing flexing and mine are set up to turn from maximum speed with full elevator set to just below where they will flick out. Directional change is instantaneous! There are plenty of pictures, building & construction techniques on 1/12 scale combat models at http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/9790/ if anyone is interested - and new enthusiasts are always welcomed! You wouldn't believe how much fun it is. P.S. There's even a little something for Barry Weatherall at the bottom of http://www.geocities.com/dave_acesuk/aircraft2/airctype.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytilbroke Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Looks like I shall need to try the waterbase varnish or the Balsa lock. As the filler stays porous it should take the varnish well. After of course a good rubdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Smalley Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Starloc Adhesives do a really good light filler for most uses and its brill for filling the weave on glass covered wings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Lee What is different about starlock form the other light weight fillers. In general I was also thinking that where heavier fillets are required, perhaps a little water soluble varnish (the quick dry type) could perhaps be added to improve the strength. The down side would be an increase in weight. But I would guess still lighter than a Miicro Balloons, resin mix. Possibly a lot more convienant as well? Erfolg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Smalley Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 the filer from starloc is more flexible when dry and will not just crumble when sanded in large quantities if you are after making larger fillets then it will not do, i use epoxy and loads of microballoons, but use 30 min epoxy as the setting time seems to speed up when used with lots of balloons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I found the Starloc web site. The company seems to be a specialist repackaging operation, that takes industrial products, and then packages them into quantities which are more in keeping with the hobbiest needs. I am not sure, but that is what it looks like. For my part I generally take the tail ends of construction materials and then use them in my hobby activities. The other aspect is that I find it increasingly difficult to get to a hobby store, I have become more interested in those products which I can get from the local DIY store or builders merchants. An example is micro balloons, I remember when I could get a large sack of the stuff from Strand Glass, for a tenth of the price as the 250cc stuff from Southen Modelcraft. If I had not used it on canoe making I would still have 2 life times worth of the stuff for about a £5. Erfolg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Smalley Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 No Erfolg this is not e repackaging operation i have personal been to see them and they make adhesives specifically for modellers indeed the guy who actually makes and designs the stuff is a modeller, they are a small family band who make adhesives at resonable prices and i have used most of their products and found them all to be quite good (the epoxy is not the best for my money but thats just my opinion) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Even the likes of Strand Glass bought their Epoxy , Polyester etc, in. Ciba Geigy I believe supplied their resins. The difference was that as they bought in, large quantities, drums were supplied from Van Leer (I think that was the name) pre-printed to the mass chemical plant. In many cases that is why there is an ocean of difference in price between trade and hobby packages, minimised packaging and distribution penalties. It is asking a lot from a small business, to invest in product development, quality control, plant and equipment etc. to supply us hobbyist. Particularly when we are often very fashion conscious and price sensitive. If that is what they have achieved all power to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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