Tim Mackey Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Well we are drifting a bit off topic here guys.... rudeness and bad flying are to be condemned in any circumstances at any club and my sympathy goes out to you Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klippy Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Sorry, sore point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubajon Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Thanks everyone for your views. Since I'm "getting on" a bit II'm with you Tony. There's so much rush rush these days, it's a wonder any of them have time to breath! Gemma, that's almost exactly the experience I have had many times and one reason i prefer to fly alone. we all stick to the rules anyway so what does it really matter. Thanks again eveyone who has commented. sorry to break the previous chain of thought, won't do it again....promise!! lol cheers j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ashby - Moderator Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Tons of opinion Steve, has it helped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Foreman Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Well if its any help Steve I actually learned to fly on a Multiplex Electric Easy Glider (RIP) this made a perfect trainer for me as I learnt to fly myself (again - after 20 years in the wilderness) A large 72" span slow flying model with a very cheap power system (brushed motor + gearbox) cheap battery 2s1p 2200 Lipo (£20) flew for 30 minutes or more. Made of very tough elapor foam (easy to repair with a bit of hot water). Very easy to fly and virtually lands itself, preferred stiller cnditions but you could load the wing joiner up with ballast for windier days. Got a lot of flying in before I smashed it to bits, but that was after I had learned all the basics and was trying aerobatics like inverted flying. Cheers Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Chard Posted April 17, 2009 Author Share Posted April 17, 2009 Blimey, I've just logged on hoping for a couple of responses and I see we are now on 28! Thanks for all your hospitality and advice. I'm still not sure which way to 'swing' but at least I now have a clear understanding of the pros and cons for each. As it's been 20+ years I really am starting from scratch so It will be a couple of months before I am fully up and running but I will let you all know how I got on. Thank you all again. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Grigg Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Ithink you have the correct approach Steve .If id joined a club and visited the field a few times and got to know the guys and there opinions first I would have saved a bunch of money and wouldnt have a cupboard full of models I cant fly at presnt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemma Jane Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Then again Stephen one can't help observing that if you had gone for an Easy Glider like Tom or a HZ Cub like myself for your first model you might have a cupboard full of models you could fly! These debates though interesting always seem to polarise people Tony seeing the fact that a pilot at his club who showed bad airmanship is at fault because of the power source of the model. Perhaps Tony it would have been appropriate to expedite a go around rather than landing in the weeds and displaying your own lack of airmanship! As for character, having now flown along with IC models I have to observe that a PZ Trojan or E-Flite Sea Fury positively oozes character compared to an IC sport model flying at 3 times scale speed. I don't now I will just have to try this IC stuff one of these days and see if my views change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ashby - Moderator Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 You've got to do it Gemma, you may just love it you know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemma Jane Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 To be honest David there is very little in this world that has wings and any form of motor in it I don't love so it probably will happen sooner or later Still it was fun flying the PZ Trojan this morning, Southend are reporting 14kts with 25kts gusts, that was interesting, Landings were more like bringing it in as low as possible and just plonking it down. Be interested where the limits are with IC, I know at the club some of the IC flyers considered it too windy a few months ago to fly when I was flying a foamie, is it really a big gulf between the two, would it really be worth taking up IC to be able to fly in a wider range of conditions? Edited By Gemma Fairchild on 18/04/2009 12:52:55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ashby - Moderator Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Yes generally speaking (depending on the model) you'll find that heavier (ic) models will cope better in a blow so that (perhaps) rather than letting the wind fly the model more (with the pilot constantly correcting) a greater degree of precision flying can be enjoyed. A good i.c. sports model (say a .46-60) will take up more sky than your Trojan (a good thing), it'll carry more momentum through manouvers (that you'll feel at the Tx) and have, more presence too. I.c. models feel different in the air, sure they sound different too but the combination of sight and sound has an effect that stirs the emotions (hey, should have been a poet! ) in a way that many leccy models don't. Ask Timbo why he still keeps and flies his i.c. Spitfire (me too for that matter). All models are affected by the wind in some way no matter what the power source but like Andy E says, it's about having the right tool for the job - plenty of planes in the hangar so you've always got something to reach for no matter what the conditions or flying site you're using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mackey Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 And Timbo's answer is.... because I love it. Just as David says, it just feels to have more "soul" somehow as an IC, and with the large tank fitted I get 20 - 25 minute flights. Several people have asked me why I have not converted it to electric, knowing my penchant for all things leccy, and I always say the same thing. It sounds better, it costs less, flies better for longer, and has soul. My engine and onboard glow combo is totally reliable, having suffered only one deadstick due to the entire clunk line detaching itself inside the tank...but I got the gear up and away quickly, and greased her in to the long grass for perfect completely damage free landing. Although I like to run my IC engines slightly rich, there is hardly any muck to clean off after flight. I know it could be converted pretty easily, but it wouldnt be cheap, and flight times, realistically would be 5 - 8 minutes maximum. Even with M1 cells and 20 minute recharges, in that time I could have refuelled, shot down a few ME109s and saved the free world. Having said all that, my other all time fav model is the little Alfa Sabre - getting that sort of performance and presence with an IC / turbine is simply not feasible on budget, so for entirely different reasons this one is also a great favourite. As stated.... different tools for the job in hand, and thats what this thread really started off as - advice as to the best tool for the job of learning R/C model flying, and my personal opinion has not changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Grigg Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 When I did get myself going in the right direction it was with an MPX easystar followed by anMPX easicub.,but then when i progressed to ailerons I was to aggresive because the previous models needed so much movement to turn.With the controls turned down in getting the hang of it.Would you suggest a beginner starts with or without ailerons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mackey Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 I think today's learners mainly start off on 4 channel - most of us old school folk started el + rudder then "progressed" but that was mainly due to other factors such as cost, availaibility, and complication of equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemma Jane Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 My own experience was 3 channel rudder only with the HZ Cub then I added ailerons to it. I would like to see more models that provide this approach as a natural progression because to be honest the step-up was a non-event for me. Mainly I think because I was flying essentially the same model as I had been before, only with less dihedral and the addition of ailerons. All that had changed was that I could now do rolls. I'm sure part of the reason I found early success (no lessons so essentially I learnt to fly models on the first flight - well actually the second but we won't talk about the first attempt with a Firebird Freedom ) was the simplicity of only needing to co-ordinate the throttle whilst gently steering around with rudder and controlling pitch. I still feel the electric self taught route is not that far out of reach for most people, I can see the IC argument but without a club then what? I made several IC models down the years in the hope of taking up RC flying but found due to location the whole concept quite inpractical. It took the advent of cheep simple electric RC models to finally see me take to the air and frankly I've since found joining a model club more difficult than joining my full size flying club with several months waiting. It is a good job also that I arrived at the club self-taught, after the long wait to join the instructor availability is zero. I'm not knocking the club here either, simply relating my own experiences and why I tend to think that anyone who has put in the time with the sims, learnt enough to trim a model in flight and has some concept of flight dynamics can stand a very good chance of success with some of the RTF 'no experience required' models currently on the market. Granted there will always be some Muppet who buys one and crashes it after 10 seconds.... um but then again so did I on my first flight with a firebird freedom having chosen to fly it in strong winds Sometimes it is not a case of what is 'best' but what is doable I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Grigg Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Had 3 flights with my MPX Mentor inwindy conditions and im loving it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Harris Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 It not just the power plant, its the airframe. I learnt on a PA Addiction, my son on an E-Flite Mini Pulse, same batteries, same motors. The Addiction gets blown around in wind of 8mph+ the Mini Pulse is more tolerant and happy up to 12mph. These days, if its 10mph+ only the 52inch plus models get loaded. I'm cautious about the landing phase of my 58" Extra in 15mph+ If the wind comes from over the buildings near our site the landings can be even more fraught. By observation, similar airframes with IC suffer less at landing, but have a generally higher attrition rate due to other failures, mostly vibration related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 9 Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 As a beginner I am still confused after reading this thread. I have been trying to learn with an easystar. As a start it has been fantastic. The limiting factor was not battery life but instructor availability. And the IC or EP debate seems to suite different people depending on their circumstances (and personal preference). I like the convenience of EP but now I have a dilemma. My easystar is coming to its end (after a lot of repairs) and I want a replacement. I have been looking at Seagull’s Pioneer and Innovator as a replacement. My club is mostly IC and the site can be windy. So should I just change over to IC. Once I buy my next model it will represent quite an investment for me so I don’t want to be stuck with the wrong model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Grigg Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 Id go for theMPX Mentor.Ihad an Easistar and enjoyed it.Ive a Boomerang IC,and a newly built Seagull Pioneer both ready to fly but im sticking with the Mentor because im enjoying it so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 9 Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 Hi Stephen I had looked at the mentor but dismissed it because its foam and I wanted a more traditional balsa model. But if you say it really is that good I may have to reconcider. Can you tell me what motor.prop battery setup you use. and what sort of flight times you get from it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Grigg Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 Hi Phil,you can get a power setup recommended fo the Mentor from Multiplex,I believe its 1000KV.David Asbys review gives you all that info.I had a spare 1100kv motor and power set up that I used.I use various batteries when I fly all 3s, a2500,3200,4600,and5000 which gives me a full day s flying.With a bit of gliding ive managed 20 minutes on the 2500,and over half an hour with the bigger ones,in a bit of wind ,I love the model,its very forgiving and has no vices to date.Its giving me plenty of stick time which I need.Last week I even picked up a couple of thermals as well. In the hands of my instructors the model becomes very acrobatic and shows me how far i can take my flying with it.Its become a hit at the club and 1 member is buiding 1 to use as a tug for glider towing because he was so impressed with it when I invited hin to fly it.Good luckwith your flying,and 1 more thing you dont have to spend lots of time wiping the oil off at the end of the day,and its greener Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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