Danny Fenton Posted June 22, 2010 Author Share Posted June 22, 2010 just run up the Pupeteer and I might be pushing the envelope a little bit with this one...... weight 10lbs power on the wattmeter 330 Watts and that was with a 19 x 10. I think, unfortunately, it needs more cells, or a different motor......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propogandhi Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Hey Danny, was the original IC model 10bls? seem s bit high, But yes 330watts is, um...a bit lacking for sure. BTW I'm going to try and make it upto the Greenacres electric fly-in so should I bring my Maggy along? prop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted July 6, 2010 Author Share Posted July 6, 2010 Hey prop that would be great! I better get this Pupeteer test flown then Yes 330 watts is a little low. I will make up an 8 cell pack that will get the watts up for sure. If I drop to 8S1P from 6S2P that will save just under a pound on the Auw so closer to 9lbs, the website says 8lbs for an IC version. This hasn't been built very lightly by the previous builder and it has been repaired before I got my hands on it. The 3kW motor at the front doesn't help on the weight front. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propogandhi Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 So will we be seeing the pup this weekend Danny? prop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted July 26, 2010 Author Share Posted July 26, 2010 Hi Prop, It looked great didn't it The final configuration was as per the thread except I removed an entire 6S pack and flew on just 6S1P. A massive 330 watts for a 9lb airframe. I had the option of going for 8S if all it would do was taxi, but I needn't have worried, it was away after just ten feet!! The test flight on Friday evening was very exciting to say the least. I have a Jeti Rx that gave odd results in my Hurricane and I thought I would try it in the Pupeteer. I once again got massive porpoising as though the c of g was wrong but it wasn't, it was spot on to the plan. The guy I built it for was keen to let a fellow member have a play with it and I said I didn't mind. he threw in a new Rx and added 2 more cells. He also increased the down and side thrust. He fitted a 17 x 10 and it flew like a dream. Chris Bott has some photos that I am hoping he will post for me later today. So there you have it, a very slow (around 3300 rpm) prop is very efficient. The current draw was just 15A at full throttle, and I didn't use full throttle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted July 26, 2010 Author Share Posted July 26, 2010 Here are some final shots of the model just before and during the maiden flight: Judging by the grin on Gavins face when he got to fly the Pupeteer, I guess he is pleased with it. Okay maybe the last piccy was the real thing Cheers DannyEdited By Danny Fenton on 26/07/2010 23:43:39 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Wood Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 Looks superb - really great looking model. Too many bits of string on that last one though . A quick question on your Baronette if I might ask - do you have any right side thrust built in?When I maidened mine recently it went to the left on take off & would not turn to the right. 13x8 " prop with Eflite 32. Cheers Richard Edited By Richard Wood on 27/07/2010 10:53:56 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted July 27, 2010 Author Share Posted July 27, 2010 Hi Richard, thanks mate. The Baronette hasn't flown since the maiden last year. Sacriledge I know but I save it for special occasions, especially to fly with other Flair Scout Series models. It really likes calm weather, not so much for flying but for landing, if it isn't dead into wind it will dig a wing tip in I am sure. The test flight last year was all left hand turns, so I cannot really say that it would turn right, but it flew straight as an arrow on takeoff and I had no inclination that it wouldn't turn right. I don't think there is any side or downthrust added to the original design, I just shortened the nose a fair bit. If there is a nice evening I will give it a go and let you know. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Wood Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 Cheers Danny, that'll be a great help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Murphy 1 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Hi Danny,Thanks for the post pointer,did not see that that one.The work you did on the build is first class.would love mine to come out half that good! Would of been good to see the motor mounted for ideas.Can i ask how you go about placing the motor for thrust etc or is it just set central on the firewall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 Hi Gary, amazingly I have no pictures of the motor installation, but it was effectively bolted directly on the firewall. I think the owner added some additional down and right thrust, also an additionl cell, but I didn't think it needed it. The owner does visit this forum from time to time - Gavin you got any pics of the motor setup? The motor was a HXT 6354 although the current unit Turnigy 6354 looks different the spec is similar. You will see it weighs a whopping 484g and is capable of 2400 watts, so my very light loading (330 watts) was nothing for this motor. It does show what you can do if you play with volts and prop size. The aircraft needs the weight up front anyway, because I shortened the nose by quite some bit The peculiarity of this motor is that it is fatter than it is long, and the length was the issue. Hope that helps, and thanks for the kind words on the build, it was interesting for sure. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Walters Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Hi Danny - the Puppeteer is my next build after the Courier (and the Tiger Moth rebuild!) - this thread is very useful to me so thanks to Gary for ressurecting it as I hadn't seen it before. I'm hoping to do it over the Summer so as to the leave the Autumn for something 'more complex'! You did a great job Danny - very attractive model and looks convincing in the photos (except for the last one - that looks like a model! A query for the Lipo challenged amongst us. I like the idea of the large motor because I don't see the point of carrying dead weight around. However - I can't get my head round the Lipo/A123 equivalents. What would be a close replacement Lipo(s) for the A123 power in the Puppeteer and how do you work that out please? Also did you use A123s because they also add weight or because they were convenient? Would you use them today if you were doing the rebuild again? Cheers Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 Hi Terry and thanks for your comments, I enjoyed the Pupeteer as it was a bit of fun and not to heavily detailed. The A123 cells are inherently safe, and can therefore be sealed into the model, or fed into position via the wing with only a small access panel to allow in-plane charging. You can't really do this safely with LiPo's. With A123's you simply wedge the cells in position with chunks of foam etc. you do not need to design battery boxes and trays, which invariably end up in the wrong place for the c of g For the equivalent Lipo I would drop a cell, so a 6S A123 2300mah 21.6V roughly equals a 5S 3000 lipo 21V. If you compare the weight there isn't as much in it as you would think. When you go up a bit a 10S lipo 42V would be about a 12S A123 43.2V Something that is often forgotten regards the lifespan of A123 packs, though not unlimited, I am still flying a Wot4 with the original 6S battery pack that I sealed into the model in May 2007, the performance is still as good today as it was then. I cannot say that of any lipo I have owned. For an aircraft lightly loaded like this, I would definitely use A123's The power to weight is not such an issue. However for the higher wing loading models then I think Lipos come into their own. I am in a bit of a quandary with my BT Hurricane as it is designed around 12 x A123 cells and there is no hatch large enough for access to LiPos. so I am stuck using a less than ideal setup. This is purely down to the time it has taken to build the model (3 years) and the technology changes in that time. Big motor - slow props, definitely the way forward as far as I am concerned. I hope you will do a build on here? Cheers Danny Edited By Danny Fenton on 23/03/2012 11:12:39 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Walters Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Hi Danny - thanks - much appreciated! Looks like I'll have a go at the A123 cells then - another new experience. Last time I looked I couldn't get any in the UK as the few suppliers all seemed to be OOS and I haven't had an update e-mail yet to say they've arrived! Any ideas apart from HK? I would rather have those with solder tags already done. I will do a build blog if you are a glutton for punishment! Doing a blog does keep you on task tho' - you feel you have to keep on going 'for your readers'! I may well also shorten the nose too - that seems to be reasonable thing to do. The Puppeteer is not scale and wont be when it's finished but the shorter nose is something that makes quite a difference. Just been outside in the sun - repairing the Tiger's cowl, filling, sanding, first primer and second filling! Thanks again Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 Hi Terry, today I am not jealous its gloriously sunny here too makes a change. May even go for a fly later. If I can remember which way up to hold the TX. I would suggest Puffin as a source of A123's in ready built packs. Electricwingman does em in any shape you like. Otherwise go to UH and buy them loose. The Hobbycity ones have tags You will need the right setting on your charger but they nearly all cater for LiFe cells these days. You might want to check the availability of a nice short motor before you go to far, but you are looking for a motor of around 250 - 300 KV ideally. That will produce quite meagre power on 6S and probably a bit lively on 7S. Mine flew on 6S but I didn't get much time to experiment due to the Rx playing up. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redex Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Hi Danny, can you say roughly what flight times you have been getting with your Wot 4 using the A123 6S pack. Many Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted October 11, 2013 Author Share Posted October 11, 2013 Hi Redex, I am not really sure, my memory is not that great and I haven't flown it for a while. Probably getting on for 10 minutes, though my timer is set for 7. It is very dependant on how you fly it as to the duration. And it is a foam winged original kit, so a little heavier than the modern ARTF version. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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