CARPERFECT Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Picture this. I join a Flying club with no experience of flying before and take out the BMFA insurance have say 4/5 hours with the club trainer. Then go on my own to the club field to fly and crash my plane and do damage to some person/property. The club has no policy that i have to be with some one, or that i get to (A) std before going on my own. would the insurance cover these losses.How many clubs let people fly on their own without having The BMFA (A) certificate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mackey Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Hardly any.However, assuming you complied with the BMFA "guidelines" regarding ensuring the flight was safe to undertake etc etc..then I think you would be covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytilbroke Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Insurance likes to know the Actual Cause of Incident. As Timbo says though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 The thing to remember is the BMFA insurance is liability insurance, as are the others that are available, LMA etc That means it will only payout if you are at fault and therefore liable for any damages, as long as you are flying legally. If it is a pure accident there is no reason for the insurance company to pay out as you are not liable for any damages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CARPERFECT Posted December 13, 2009 Author Share Posted December 13, 2009 Does the club not have any responsability? i.e letting people fly with little or no experience. They seem to have this attitude of people do not need a (A) certificate .most of them in the club already have a or b certificates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CARPERFECT Posted December 13, 2009 Author Share Posted December 13, 2009 Can you explain what you hace written If it is a pure accident there is no reason for the insurance company to pay out as you are not liable for any damages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Anyone can join the BMFA whether as a club member or as a single indvidual. The insurance covers all legal operation of model aircraft, rockets, balloons, paper darts etc. etc. and there is no requirement for training or standards whatsoever. Therefore I can't see why a club would have any responsibility for the actions of an individual operating alone. In fact, I doubt whether a club would even be responsible for the actions of a member operating at their field. In law, it is always the pilot's responsibility to ensure a flight can be made safely. Edited By Martin Harris on 13/12/2009 18:43:12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stanley 1 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 The BMFA insurance has two elements - * Accidental personal injury, where you might, for instance, cut your hand starting an engine, have a mishap with a boat exhaust and get burnt, or get a friction burn from a car you are starting... Yes, boats and car related injuries are included too. * Personal liability insurance - i.e. your liability to others. So if you crash due to some error or mistake on your part, into someone's car or person, they have a liability claim against you. This is covered by the BMFA. It is important to remember this when there is an "accident", and the words in the claim paperwork reflect the cause being someone's fault. Denying any error or fault could yell make things a lot more complicated and the claim would take longer to sort out. If you flew into the sun and became disoriented, and loose control, you are making an error of judgement. If your battery goes flat, you should have checked it or charged it more carefully etc... In the case of a genuine accident (if there is such a thing) would most likely not have any liability against you, as you have not been negligent, so no claim could be made. If your model flies off and gets lost or damaged, and no one else is injured etc.. you have no liability against you, there is no claim to be had. Damage to your possessions by you is not a basis for a claim. Of course if you ever have a mishap that might result in a claim, do not admit or deny responsibility. Record the facts, exchange details with those involved, and contact the BMFA ASAP. There are some circumstances that might invalidate the insurance, perhaps including breaking the law in some cases, so be aware of the Air Navigation Order and it's importance for model fliers. See www.bmfa.org/ANO/index.html Edited By Graham Stanley 1 on 13/12/2009 19:51:36 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Privett Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Posted by CARPERFECT on 13/12/2009 14:41:39: Can you explain what you hace written If it is a pure accident there is no reason for the insurance company to pay out as you are not liable for any damages. Chris Bromley explained this a couple of years ago on another forum. As Andy said, we have "third-party liability" insurance. So if someone can prove that we were at fault - and therefore responsible for whatever damage has been caused - then it will pay up. If necessary the liability may be determined in a law court, but I think usually it's fairly obvious without resorting to that. So, if you lose control of your model and it hits something then you were quite clearly at fault and the insurance will pay up. But if it's a pure accident - say you collide with a seagull and the wreckage causes some damage - then there is no liability and nothing for the insurance to pay out. The person whose property has been damaged might disagree and may take it to court. If the court determines that you were liable then the insurance will pay out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Posted by John Privett on 13/12/2009 19:57:23:Posted by CARPERFECT on 13/12/2009 14:41:39: Can you explain what you hace written If it is a pure accident there is no reason for the insurance company to pay out as you are not liable for any damages. Chris Bromley explained this a couple of years ago on another forum. As Andy said, we have "third-party liability" insurance. So if someone can prove that we were at fault - and therefore responsible for whatever damage has been caused - then it will pay up. If necessary the liability may be determined in a law court, but I think usually it's fairly obvious without resorting to that. So, if you lose control of your model and it hits something then you were quite clearly at fault and the insurance will pay up. But if it's a pure accident - say you collide with a seagull and the wreckage causes some damage - then there is no liability and nothing for the insurance to pay out. The person whose property has been damaged might disagree and may take it to court. If the court determines that you were liable then the insurance will pay out. That about covers it. Basically with any insurance you can only insure yourself against liability or yourself against accidents (just like car insurance) you can't insure an unknown 3rd party against accidents. Edited By Andy Symons on 13/12/2009 21:25:17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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