Area 51

Thanks for this, super to see them again.. As a lad I needed a new canopy for my Capstan.. unbeknown to me my father contacted Cambria in Llanidloes to get a new one.. we then called in enroute to a caravan holiday near New Quay in Wales.. I got a factory tour, new canopy, catalogue and some decals ! I was made up and silent in the back of the car for the rest of the trip. I bagged a Merlin at Aberystwyth models back in the 70's, built it on the upturn dining table in the caravan.. Happy days indeed.. Thanks Jason!

Mike, lovely motor that Alpine; from memory it was a super summer too! I expect the hard top wasnt on it a lot.. Enjoyed your recollections of that period for you; the places/ladies/days out.. we all had them Mike.. fond memories indeed young sir!

Thanks for the additional comments here lads. Reading this and checking over the Aeronca last night, I do feel my covered unflown acquisition is very light! With an RC mod in mind and having reread this, I do feel a wing strengthing programme is going to be wise whilst fitting a wing tube and ailerons.. Os 30 four stroke sounds like a good choice for the increased weight.. Thanks again

Thanks leccy god.. some of the airfield management was outsourced at Woodvale; I knew a chap there. He did confirm the airfield had asbestos under the ground and it needed removing, therefore a risk was present across the whole area whilst this was completed so the shows there stopped in recent years. However the model flying has never returned; maybe a part of it is the cost of running it/insurance.. should we ask/expect the BMFA to build bridges with airfield commanders/RAFMAA to secure a site for a few weekends a year.. its not a lot too ask.. A combined effort from the LMA/BMFA etc to such RAF offices could result in a reasonable consideration being given to a regulated, insured and represented group such as ourselves being allowed to use the facilities.. Full size airshows appear to be dieing a death over the UK, it would be a shame to think our hobby is heading the same way..

Agreed Phil.. problem with Joe Public is that he/she doesnt bother to vote anymore.. hence the chaos we live in with politians who think media point scoring and put downs is running the country. As you rightly say they would never vote for a ban on motor vehicles... but the public wouldnt be given a vote on it.. that is the way things are run now. Dismissing the flea that is annoying the government would be very easy, as you say 99.9% of the population wouldnt even bat an eyelid.. the banning of pistols is good example. The issue here is not the commercial operation of drones with 300hrs building etc. It is the ability of some numpty to get a hold of one and cause chaos.. "a spectacular event" as they like to class it.. only takes one.. The regulatory authorities will protect their own. My concern, from the output, of the BMFA is that they are not on top of promoting our needs or aims.. The CAA will do so over licensed operatives end of - I am hoping against hope the "grandfather rights" of model flying and the hobbies relationship with the CAA will include all of us within these grandfather rights as the discussion progresses. The update on the BMFA news page about easa / drones is showing under 1500 page view.. some of these are the same person more than once! me as an example.. So from this, is it possible to gauge the level of interest in the topic from BFMA members. Perhaps is it that BMFA members dont bother at all to read the website or about this topic or anything about the hobby in general? Perhaps it is just the few regulars on here that tweet on the topic who are concerned about the problems caused by the media coverage "drones"

Ted, I agree.. the whole essence appears to be the need to control and improve awareness of "new" drone owners - especially any equipment bought outside of the established circles we are used too.. i.e. model mags/shops that usually carry enough detial about operating safely.. The problem faced as I see it, is trying to deal with the muppets who buy one/are given one and think its a quick case of charge and get into the park nearest to home and film the neighbours cat running up trees away from the rising flood water.. I saw it first hand with a neighbour.. it happened just like this.. £700 on a drone, charged, in the park and cruising here and there fine.. then decided to "do a bit more with it".. I never saw that first/last flight.. just the bits as he came back approx 20mins after going out of the door.. No interest in repairing it.. he is an architect, has seen YT videos and thought it would be cool for his business to do the same and video some of their sites/properties for sale.. No interest whatsoever in a spot of training/rules/education when I saw him with an arm full of broken plastic bits.. Now this chap knows I have large warbirds/gliders/turbines/indoor and park flyers.. and could have got some info and guidance over the fence.. so to speak.. But he used his company credit card to buy, wanted to use it there and then, really genuinely thought its easy peasey... He has not intension of rebuilding the bits or reestablishing his ideas.. Where he flew he was too close to trees/homes/commercial property and others were in the same space with dogs and a football.. In my view, these are the people along with those of who have negative plans for the use of the drone are the ones that need stopping/targetting.. The media loves a bad story, autonomous vehicles that can be bought anywhere are the medias latest daily mantra... however it is our hobby they may ruin. The interweb is full of drone videos flying over neighbours gardens, workplaces or towns - all of which can be deemed as illegal. The evidence is there already.. never mind the guy sentenced for flying over the Barrow nuclear plant etc. Why would you want to fly out of line of sight? With the exception of commercial operations. Awareness and engagement are the solution; any importer to the UK should include rules with the sale of each item and a clear instruction that insurance is needed via a representative body.. the BMFA.. or maybe not as maybe we do not need all tarring with the same brush. At the sake of droning on, this a public forum and the media can take pages from it to pad out a story.. as this is all any "journo" seems to do these days..

Posted by Electric God on 13/01/2016 09:20:36: There is a similar situation at Middle Wallop with the events that use the site. New rules for non aviation use of the aerodrome have been introduced nationally and this may be the reason. Agree with Erflog that in its heart, the nationals is a very small event for the benefit of a very small number of entrants. Its the other stuff that's made the nationals what it is. I personally have never gone as I cant watch modelling for long without wanting to do it myself and that I can do from my excellent club site. Interesting you say "new rules" have been introduced. This would explain why modelling never returned to Woodvale after it was cancelled due to work at the site a few years back. If this is the case, then perhaps a better detailed description of these changes would improve everyones awareness of how such sites are at risk! However, I cannot see how a model flying weekend is classed as "non aviation".. A rock concert at the site yes, even a car boot etc.. but the nationals is most definately a national aviation event! If national security is tightened, all they need do is secure site buildings and arrange the event away from these areas... Naturally the event security costs would need to be met by the organisers... Unless the airfield is on reaction alert or standby, I cannot see any UK base being "open for business" over a bank holiday weekend.. unless of course they are on active operations at that time.. Do these "new rules" explain why the LMA event at Cosford last summer was switched to the other side of the airfield at short notice?.. It it does, it seems a little strange as punters were still able to wander amongst the buildings, in fact the flying took place over where the crowds used to be and this is closer to the buildings!.. If the BMFA know a concrete reason/explanation, then why not say in detial? Should end spculation and perhaps get members to assist in finding new site.. Always solutions if one is prepared to look at it that way! Buying a site is not the answer in my opinion..

Nowt wrong with Brawdy in fact too much right with it, lovely place and spot! +1 from me Lets not give all the secrets away here boys

Love the picture of the Sunbeam Mike, must had been terrible to see it after the smash.. some rotters about. Who is the naked chap up the road with his worldly wares on the floor and in the boot of his Lada? Not by chance a far end of the med type who made an early dart for freedom was it..

Something on electronics would be nice, build your own lighting system etc! Lights operated with flap deployment, rotating beacons.. bit to go at there.. Whilst the craze of drones has been accepted, by some, not all want to see it month in month out.. I appreciate the challenge of providing content - but that is why salaries are drawn and we subscribed or buy the mag.. we expect to see content we want to see.. New thread on content was that I heard?

Afternoon Pat. Its a ready built I picked up that I am retro fitting with ailerons, less dihedral and the dirty power version (DPV)! It has been built/covered but appears unflown as there is no oil residue/veggie option wiring/esc lurking inside... Its a two peice wing so I am going to need to beef the cabin area mount, install wing tubes and small servos to the ailerons.... It feels very light as per the FF pedigree, so I'm sure it'll still perform with the added weight of motor/long range tanks/wing servos and wing mods.. I will grab the OZ plan as a reference.. the one I have is the Mercury kit..

Will the BMFA be asking the RAF if they have any sympathetic base commanders ? The head of the LMA is some RAF chap isnt he?, perhaps this is a foot in the door to the right persons desk.. alternatively how about the head of the RAFMAA and see if he can provide access to the right person.. The ATC cadets can be used to lend a hand and join in the weekend of fun.. I, for one, cannot believe ALL RAF facilities are unable to support a liked minded hobby over a Bank Hol weekend when most if not all personnel are off base or at home... Unless operational - Bank Hol working will involve overtime and without valid reason, that will not be sanctioned. Will the University air squadrons not be on "holidays" during the summer recess? Postive solutions here chaps.. lets have them instead of why it cant go ahead.. Although I am really hoping the comments from EXTRA SLIM above are spot on about Chacksfield House being in the case already and they will surprise us all by coming up TRUMPS.. Thats nothing to do with Donald by the way.. or the last of the sprouts..

Best thread on here for a long time!

Lets have a poll then.. Locations for the BMFA to hold the NATS at... may throw up a few ideas for the Chacks chaps(esses) to pick the phone up and get dialing..

PatMc my dear chap.. Can you tell me what you drop the wing incidence by or too? I have the sedan and am wanting to add ailerons when I re engine to an Os30 4 stroke.. Thanks in advance, as always!

SYWELL !

Posted by ken anderson. on 11/01/2016 17:27:03: BMFA...if you are reading please consider elvington airfield..... ken anderson...ne...1 bring the Nats to us dept. +1 for Elvington from me.. still the same distance - 110mls + Will the RAF not consider allowing the use of one of their other sites for this event? I’m guessing this will have already been asked, but if they wont – its very poor show considering they have the RAFMAA for personnel; and of course as tax payers their facilities are in fact ours.. Given the gravity of this news to modelling community, perhaps before any announcement is made - the first juncture should be preparing a media statement to coincide with any passing of the information verbally, ideally released before meetings! The very least, the same time! I see its 15 lines on the BMFA website, this could have been put out as soon as it became knowledge.. to the membership.. the employers of the Chacksfield crowd.. This can not be hard given the availability of media comms to organisations, facetube/twitter/BMFA website... A brief summary of the disappointing news could have been released before making the same available as some meeting "all the membership" were not attending. This, in the very least, would remove the impact or any opportunities of it being misreported elsewhere!. A couple of pages on each discipline would be good within the BMFA news; hobby developments/BMFA activities to support hobby would also be good.. The mug shots of awards is really tiresome and means little to anyone who did not attend, enter or enjoy that aspect of the hobby!.. Perhaps these could be on the website! with more detail and images of the area of influence the award was won in or for!.. Maybe even a video of why Mr/Ms X won the control line indoor foam scale warbird trophy.. this could even provide a link to more pages on this area of the hobby to those who are interested in it.. team to contact in each area to “get involved”.. Membership engagement I think it comes under..

Hey C8 you have got to laugh... right? Seemingly this was news given last week to the "freeflight and CL" boys at a meeting with the head of the BMFA in attendance.. Nothing on the BMFA website though as of 5mins ago! Probably explains why there is so much coverage of freeflight in the BMFA news.. No need for us to worry about drones ruining the hobby is there.

It would be nice to see the BMFA put on a presentation of this nature to cover the current staus with the CAA/Easa and perhaps highlight the need for increased awareness by members of forthcoming meetings or action individual modellers can take to ensure a broad and substantive voice of the membership is heard in support of our hobby; its protection too.. I have read elsewhere the next newsletter "may" contain some form of update.. Given the media coverage daily on this topic, the majority of which is scaremongering and tarring the hobby with the same brush.. I would prefer to be reassured and aware (on a frequent basis) the BMFA is doing all it can.. Am I wishing for too much here? The purchase of that farm and land did not receive "adeqaute" coverage for the membership; but that is my opinion.

Sad news and quite a shock! Saw him a couple of times.. Truly a part of the sound track of ones life.. RIP David.. and thanks for some super music and memories..

Posted by AVC on 11/01/2016 10:55:32: Posted by Ben Kenobi on 08/01/2016 21:05:55: Simply excluding technology out of some elitist ideal is crazy, I'm with the guy that says why when you say but I can do that manually - if a hi tech onboard computer can stop me putting my pride and joy into the ground I'm all for it. Hi Ben Kenobi This hobby is about enjoying with the challenge of being able to control an aircraft using you psychomotor abilities. If the aircraft can take off, fly, do a snap roll, hover, and lands autonomously while you look at it from the ground, where the pride and joy of that? Can only agree with this view of the mass produced drones.. My neighbour got one last year; parted with around £700.. first I saw or knew of his interest was when I saw him on the way back from the park we live next too.. the drone in bits, I mean smashed to bits.. That was the end of that!... as an architect, he thought he could turn his hand to anything.. I hope the intro to last months RCME about "I'm doing FPV" this year doesnt mean I am going to regret my subs renewal!!! Sorry to add to the droning on here, but the coverage is becoming tiresome ..

Nice to see Robin and PatMc on the case here ! These two fellow modellers love a good "whatisit" Keep up the good work fellas .... PS - cant beat a good Veron Vortex

Close enough to get me off in the right direction, plus from the websearch - I have found some nice images to work with.. Robin, now that one does take the biscuit.. you would be hard pushed to find a plan for that! Mind you, searching the Bellanca images, they did have some lovely designs and variations in the 30's - as PatMc said right off.. its that area 20-30's.. stylish.. To some I guess, we all get it - but some wont.. Still I reckon mine is going to be the X R E 1 - 3, i like the enclosed cowl over the cylinder heads and that exhaust tube coming out the front end and under.. Happy days.

Hi John, thanks. Youre right it does have meaty struts. After the help here I was looking over google and realised the bag of bits I got with it contained the struts.. they are like heli rotors, laminated wood and aerofoil shaped!.. The u/c is robust in design too.. With all this work, I shall enjoy get her finished off now. Thanks all once again

Thanks a lot lads, I reckon we should run these on the run up to Xmas.. would keep us busy for hours.. "guess the model".. winner gets the plan etc..!! I think we have pretty much narrowed it down now.. The Jerry bates plan at 1/7th scale just about matches but looking over an enlarged image the method used to build the tailplane and rudder does vary quite a lot; this airframel I have has laminated edges to the rudder/elevator/tailplane. I am guessing it could be an enlarged plan of smaller model!. Still the majority of the work is done, I was keen to just get the final details/CofG.. but with what you have supplied me with here.. It'll be fine i reckon.. the Jerry bates @ 1/7th scale is showing a 1.20 four stroke.. Jeeze.. that would pull the flipping wings off this one.. I am thinking an 70/80, swinging a nice big prop.... but I'll get some more work done before I make a final decision - see how the weight comes alone.. its a large wing so it'll float nicely.. Robin, as PatMc has said, I reckon you nailed it first time around.. I have also found this image after looking into them more after googling.... she is growing on me a lot as we research here.. This has the stubby fuselage and nose (than I got with it) going under that outer cowl.. looking over the full size now, I realise I have the wing struts too in the big of bits I got with the model.. I thought these must have been of something else at the resemble wooden heli rotors, all built and aerofoiled! The history of this type is here, it had a military life and limited civil too.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellanca_CH-400 Really think we should have a pure "Mystery model thread".. Thanks a lot again, its appreciated.. Grab that last mince pie with a brandy and coffee on me tonight! Cheers!   Edited By Area 51 on 04/01/2016 19:09:03 Edited By Area 51 on 04/01/2016 19:10:35