Dave Bran

Back to the fault, and I have proved today that it was the MOTOR!!! Bought an new ESC and a new motor, ultimately intended for elsewhere, but it gave me the opportunity to swap around, and much to my surprise the old ESC works perfectly with the new motor (which was bigger, so higher current, giving it a harder time, yet it still worked), but the old motor didn't work with either ESC. REMINDER, the old setup was self starting OK, running at low voltage/throttle OK, but any more and the ESC cut off...now doing it on on both old and new ESC's, so NOT the ESC!!! SO, I managed to get the motor under a magnifying lamp, and found fractured wires!! The Tower Pro motor (as Scott suggests above!) is I think a suspect piece of kit, as IMHO there's insufficient support to the fine wires joining the output wiring, which itself is not held to prevent vibration and even careful mechanical handling from twisting it. One of the three wire sets under the other two was shorter and out of sight normally was clearly strained to breaking point. NOW.......I have had a dry joint before on a brushless setup, and it just jiggered the motor, with it trying to run both ways at once due the incomplete magnetic rotation, but in this case only some of the wiring to that line input was broken, and when it ran, it ran smoothly, fooling me, as I'd have expected it to be rough at least.......!!!! You live and learn!!!!

Scott - Yes, I knew what current it would pull on a 7x5, I'd run several props likely to be tried through the DPR 50 meter and compared.....should have said but trying to save lots more text. All setups I flew I'd previously tried static and none had pulled more than 11 Amps static, and I'd only used those that were topping out below 10A (on an 18A ESC initially, then on a 30A one) Chris - The ESC has no specific airflow other than being under a thin tape skin with the heatsink side in contact, it's in an EPP foam wing, but that's following the well tested design, where the instructions say to cover the Rec and ESC bays with tape. I had for the first few flights tested the temp after landing (finger on heatsink job) and it was only mildly warm after a complete battery at full throttle. The battery should be covered, too, but because I'm using a small cell capacity requiring frequent changes, I left it off, more to aid mechanical handling than cooling. Fitting a bigger capacity ESC to a same power motor as original should surely have meant cooler operation???? Dave

Just thought I'd share my current frustrations. Amongst my small but growing collection of small EP planes is a "Buzz" flying wing. Brushless Tower Pro, matching 18 Amp ESC, 1000mAh 20C LiPo. The other day after a few weeks of service it failed. After two flights that day, and after a fifteen min gap while I had maidened another guy's plane (meaning it was cold). I had changed battery in it for another flight, all normal beeps, but the motor kept stopping, it would start the prop briefly, but stop either almost immediately on throttle up, or if you were gentle, you could persuade it up to about half throttle running cleanly with no apparant ills, then any more and it would suddenly cut off. supplied Tower Pro motor feels OK, no undue resistance, smells OK. Prop is the original supply, 8 x 4.3, known to be OK. Back home, tested again and same thing..........can see nothing obvious, so opened up the ESC bay in the wing and pulled it out....after only one brief try one of four the chips was HOT through the blue plastic sleeve. Waited for it to cool right down, fitted a full charged 1000mAh 3S 1P battery, the normal type used, tried again......same................and after only three extremely brief tries all of which immediately cut off the same single ESC chip was VERY HOT. Actual figures (plane static) for this setup from DPR monitor were Max 9.6 A, Average 4.17 A............ESC is a Mag 8 18Amp ESC, so WAY under Max............. Went to my LMS and bought a replacement motor (small Tornado Blitz 1650) and a replacement ESC, JP ENERG 30 Amp. (Did both as unsure what fault was, tho suspected ESC, and wanted to send both back so they could see what happens). Set up on recommended 8 x 4.3 prop, two circuit/landing test, OK. Changed to a 7 x 5 speed prop, two circuit test, similar result, changed back to 8 x 4.3, one circuit and it slowed, so landed and the wiring around battery plug (in free air) was smoking, melted! This was the smallest section wire, though perfectly adequate for the current drain. Got home, checked other visible wiring and battery (VERY CAREFULLY!!) and all looked OK. No other signs of distress, ESC looks OK, other wiring OK, Motor looks and smells OK. Renewed damaged wiring, JST Plug and short small wire on lead to ESC, JST Socket on Battery. Check, charge and fly battery for two cycles in Heli....it's fine. Charge and reconnect to Buzz (Still with new motor and ESC) and before I even get to open throttle there's immediate smoke from ESC, so only on for maybe five seconds, had not even taken hands off plug. Further visual of ESC, and now output end of line of IC chips under heatsink burnt out. (was no visible signs there before) Disconnect and carefully check ALL wiring.......NO visible signs of distress. The motor looks and smells undamaged, the battery is still undamaged (and later flies in the Heli OK). The motor cannot IMHO produce a 30A drain, is correctly wired, yet the 30A ESC has torched. NOW this means two setups, completely and utterly different throughout, have both failed on ESC's............ Any thoughts, or should I take up extreme knitting???

Quote "Poundland were selling some nasty chinese (scalpel/knife set) clones at £1 for 3 different handles and a dozen assorted blades - I ended up throwing the handles away, but the blades were worth the pound!" Yes, the blades are sometimes quite good, but be VERY VERY careful, the tempering is sometimes suspect and as you allude to, the handles supplied fracture very very easily, with resultant sharp bits and blades flying everywhere..........best not used at all, but if you do, ONLY with good eye protection and try and keep sensitive bits out of the firing line..........trust me, I'm no safety fetishist, but these tools made me shudder!!! AND BTW I have seen the same things on sale at £5 plus.......same dodgy standard.

What's the most useful item in your workshop? ME ......... Oh, TOOL..............!!! Mini Drill and all the accessories.......

Sounds Good, Lee............!!

I'm going to do a smaller EP version of the CorroRoo delta...with folded box correx fus rather than drainpipe. Have been given a pack of translucent 2mm correx, so would be rude not to..... :-)) Dave

Thanks Guys, Useful info...... Just got back from two long days doing the Shell Eco Challenge with 18 kids....but will investigate your comments further a.s.a.p........ For now, bed beckons.............

SPADS are usually driver error......... Oh, you don't mean Signal Passed At Danger??? ;-)) http://www.spadtothebone.com/ http://www.spad.co.za/plane%20design.html Anything being thrown in the air, especially with a whirry thing on the front, has the capacity for danger, why should any one material type be inherently a much greater concern??? It's down to the person wot built it to mantle it up proper like...........or it'll dismantle itself pretty pronto......... Surely the BMFA doesn't need specific rules ?? Oh, BTW, my chocolate Tea-Pot works perfectly, thanks..but then I only drink iced tea........ :-)) Regards, Dave

Zooot aloress, Moi EPP est totalie non rough now.........ist dead slipperie, danke mainsewer, but, and est une grand but, moi cannot hand launch it no mores as ist keeps falling dans the terra from moi's appennage.... Que?? (useful thread as I'm planning an EPP scale parkflyer!!) Dave

Just realised I have somehow managed to get myself two identities....... (I have to operate from two places, so two computers, but I thought I'd just set up the existing account on the second one, clearly not......). This is not intentional and I'll resolve it a.s.a.p. (Embarrassed grin)

Thanks for reply Scott. I'm assuming Ultrafly is :- http://www.modelflight.com.au and the plane is :- FW 190 as there are others using Ultrafly name, but these are the only ones listing a FW190. It comes with motor, and looks very good, being all balsa. What spec items are you using? Does it have power to fly off hand without any active "chuck"??Edited By Chris Card - Moderator on 23/07/2010 07:20:40

Small point slightly off topic but raised above.......It IS policy to train pupils to adjust trims while in flight, so they know where they are, how they work, can reach them without looking, and can therefore set up their own planes. So I DO when beyond the basics and ONLY AFTER a ground demo give an out of trim plane to pupils so they have to re-adjust it to proper flight trim....you cannot do that on the ground, and it's a essential part of learning to fly RC successfully. Regards, Dave

"Model" planes also doing real work should include Target Drones. I go with the "if its a model of a real world article, it needs a pilot/driver/etc", but if its a model model (like most 3D planes or helicopters) it might as well be pilotless...but to me it still does not look right to have NO cockpit or an obviously gapingly empty one......so I use and prefer the "dark tint" canopy, which hides the body count absence nicely!! dave

Alan, Thanks! I have two 35MHz 6EX's, the early "pot" flap one and the later "switch" type (as 2.4 variant). These are used either way round on Buddy no probs. I want to make next one a 2.4, but cannot transfer if Buddy not fully operable. I have also been told by LMS that Futaba buddy system is more than just use of pots, as the digital trims are also used, enabling a pupil to be handed an "out of trim" model to make him/her trim it, while the instructor has a trimmed master ready to save the model..... So, again as I understand it, yes, the "Trainee" TX does not need a crystal, but as I understand it, it does have to be switched on. Regards, Dave

Thanks for that. Just to cross a few t's and dot a few i's... Have you actually used the 2.4 TX with a 35MHz in buddy mode??........and both ways round?? Reason for asking as my LMS guys state it will not work, and they are pretty experienced people, who people listen to.........including up to now me!! Also to reinforce that this site could be useful to ensure we are not being ripped off. Tell us where guys and how much, and if you got good service!!!

It desperately needs "last in" posts at top, too, my scroll wheels wearing out already!! Prosynth?..........I have a Yamaha Synth........it doesn't smell as far as I know....but it does make some awful noises. I'm no better at Music than Flying.... That's why I like the Tempest and the Sea Fury, they LOOK like they can take punishment (and they did) SEE, kept it on topic...just....... No knowledge of X-Twins?? Errr, have you been away......did HM make you an offer you could not refuse?? :-)) I use them for a club for 11 year olds.......the next generation of flyers.......modified so the TX gives steering thrust on the right stick, they are nothing short of brilliant. Got them for £15 each in the great Maplins giveaway, an absolute steal.......great fun.......

Quote "Any body else want to come out?" I have six X-Twins........... THERE, I feel better now............... ;-)) This forum desperately needs smilies, insert pictures, remote links, etc...then I could see what is being talked of and what's being achieved/built........something like:- http://forums.uktrainsim.com/index.php A nice big electric powered Tempest V sounds really attractive, but not before the Sea Fury...... Yes, there's another one with a Sea Fury fetish................ Ah, No 5 X-Twin has charged up, got to go........

Graham, Me too.........exactly my "want" Have Medevac, Mk 1 Bell, and Twister CP....... Need to be able to also fly outdoors in more wind than above stud offer, basically......and also would like it to look more "real world" if poss.......

Have the recent 6EXAP. Feeling my way with it, but here's my initial view. I LIKE the feel, and the model memory function seems pretty good. (Set up for two so far) The settings programming is OK, no more, not that intuative. I HATE the absence of clear battery state lights, the difficult to see at a glance visual and almost inaudible "warning" is pure rubbish and a BIG issue....... FIX IT FUTABA!!!

Beaufighter (Electric Power) Hurricane (Electric Power) Hellcat (Electric Power) Is there a theme???? ;-)

Bear in mind the Electrofun is 3 Channel but the TX with it is 2 Channel plus all or nothing throttle switch...the ESC IS full proportional, so I got the LMS to swap the receiver (I installed it) for a cheap 35MHz........and I used a 6EX Futaba TX.......and just to suit myself, I run it with Rudder on the Aileron stick, so you do have to waggle the right hand stick in both planes.......don't flinch, works for me.. ;-) Point I was making was that if you "fly" everything in the Sim, the differences on a real model will not seems any issue. Good Luck...... Dave