Just another plank......

[Peter Miller]

Just checked my "Warplanes of the Third Reich" The FW 187 has in line engines with chin cowlings . Did you mean the FW Ta154 which does have big underslung radial engines?
The other one is the Henschel 129.
My problem is that I want lots of wing area because I insist on low wing loadings. An aircraft that I keep coming back to is the F-82 Tin Mustang., Another is the Me 110. The Henschel 129 has possibilities but is low on area. Another one that I keep loooking at is the A-26 Invader.
My twin would be designed for two .15s so I suppose a couple of good brushless might work. It is then that you wopuld appreciate my desire for lots of wing area.

[Terence Lynock]

Hi Peter,
the Ta 154, like the he 219, has loads of space for motors in those big nacelles and the Fw 187 is no problem to keep cool either if you leave the chins open at the front.
Those three aircraft along with the Arado 240 were excellent designs but manufacturing faults let the 154 down as you know, perhaps it would have worked with ally substituted for the wooden laminate in high stress areas.
The one thing I have always wondered is why the Luftwaffe went for the Me Bf110 which was past its prome even in 1940 when the Arado 240 was faster and could fly circles around it, I suppose it was politics overuling neccessity again,

regards, Terry

[Terence Lynock]

Terry
The aeroplane was Pou de Ciel - usually translated as Flying Flea but whihc I believe more accurately translated as Sky Louse.

Mike

Hi mike,
I remember someone offered us a none-flying example (only a loony would fly it anyway) for the Cosford collection in the early 80's but it never materialised.
Looked to be a right Heath-Rob affair held together by wire and a whole bunch of prayers,

regards, Terry

[Peter Miller]

I seem to remember that the Luftwaffe had a policy of not introducing too many new designs. A bit like the British. I think the person "in favor" at the time was part of it.
A bit like our goverment who refused the Martin Baker MB5 which was superior to the Spitfire and was much easier to service

Of course the 110 came into its own as a night fighter. I believe that it shot down more aircraft than all other night fighters on both side put together. I know I read that very recently.
The later Me 210 was a failure but the 410 was something else.
.

[Mike Rolls]

Peter
Like you, I have always thought that the MB5 was one of those 'if only' designs. To be fair, however, I also think it would have been unlikely to be available in time. It didn't have its maiden flight until 23 May 1944, by which time the Spitfire XIV had been in squadron service for four to five months. I don't see how the MB5 could really have been produced in significant numbers quickly enough, with the RAF already looking to the Meteor and Vampire as the next step.
Shame, really, as it out-ranged the Mk XIV by quite a margin. With a bit more luck and support (and had Baker lived), who knows?
But then - if Whittle had received more support in the early 30s we might have been able to pit Meteors or the like against the Luftflotten in 1940!

Mike

[Mike Rolls]

Terry
Prayers is right - and the prayers dodn't always work....

Mike

[Terence Lynock]

but the 410 was something else.


The Me 410 I agree with having worked on the one at Cosford for eighteen months cleaning and 'delousing' the last remaining example (hoping to go over next week for some fresh photos) and while working on it noted some points never ever mentioned in write-ups and other historical documentation.
If you look very carefully at Wk Nr 420430 she has plates rivetted over long slots in the wings that may well have been housings for dive brakes, all the radiator baths inside the wing are sheet steel and were rusting so we sprayed them with inhibitor, there were a number of other things but too long ago to remember,

regards, Terry

[Terence Lynock]

One area that appears to have been missed by model aircraft designers (I may be wrong of course) is a twin engined trainer aircraft that is docile and manageable and dosent turn into a lawn dart as soon as you make a mistake.
A trainer twin for people moving from single to twin motor models would be a most useful stepping stone I should think,

regards, Terry

[Peter Miller]

I think that there have been twin trainers but I can't name one. I know that fater the first flight of my American Nightmare (Named long before 9/11) I felt that I had been on a ride on the biggest rollercoaster in the world, and I had flown other twins.

[Mike Rolls]

Twin trainer - Avro Anson was used for twin conversion work IIRC.
Mike

[Terence Lynock]

Twin trainer - Avro Anson was used for twin conversion work IIRC.
Mike

There you go - a nice subject for a scale model and rarely done, others may be the Twin-Pin which had a nice big high plank of a wing and no fancy structural assemblies.

Even a Catalina with that big parasol wing and high engine mounts, build the amphib version PBY-6A which I used to sit in to eat me sahnies and drink me tea at Cosford, used to climb up and sit in the seat up in the wing sponson where naybody could findeth me.

regards, Terry

[Nick Chudley]

My Catalina is very stately and slow to fly. But at 84" wingspan, it was a lot work and I tend to fly it carefully. I don't know if it's forgiving because I haven't tried rolling or spinning with it yet. It's certainly true that you can take your thumbs off the controls, have a look round and when you look back it'll be in the right place.

Going back to the discussion about ARTF and foamies, I taught myself on a Zagi, which bounces quite well and is easy repair. It was ARTF that got me into the hobby and now it's scale models that keep me interested. I'm sure that's not exceptional, is it?

Myron .. you were looking for plans for a Mosquito. Have a look at this web site ... http://www.geocities.com/ivansplans/

This guy has many fans all over the world and he has made a couple of dozen plans for different planes, mostly flying boats and mostly twin engines. His Mossie is 74", elctric power and will be my next project in the Autumn.

Here's a link to someone who's already built one and he sounds pretty good to me.

http://www.rchobbyhub.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=60594#60594

Nick

PS what a great discussion this is....

[Peter Miller]

The Anson is nice. Done a few miles in those as a passenger. Remember a lift home one wek end. it landed at waterbeach and bounced good and hard. The co pilot was heard to say to the pilot as they left the aircraft, "Which landing shall I log?"
Yes, the Twin Pin is another good subject as a model but I have horible memories of them in Aden. We had mods to do to the nacelle, fiiting a panel underneath. The mod kits came but we found that the aircraft were not jig built and the was up to 2" diference in frame locations in the nacelles. Nothing fitted!
I keep looking at the Catalina. The nacelles are very small. I did the APS control line version many years ago. The wing on that plan is very inaccurate, far too narrow. Dornier 28 has possibilities. or the old Short Scion. Must think about it.

[Terence Lynock]

I keep looking at the Catalina. The nacelles are very small. I did the APS control line version many years ago. The wing on that plan is very inaccurate, far too narrow.

Not as narrow as the one at Codford the day I had to run along it! a good 20 feet off the ground on that wing it looked big enough for a football field and I was washing it down with a mop and had got it clean and was just finishing up when me bucket started to slide down the wing toward the trailing edge.
As the Kawasaki Ki-100 was parked directly underneith and people wouldnt have taken kindly to me bouncing a mop bucket off it I ran down the wing from one tip almost to the other to catch me bucket before it did some grave damage down below,

regards, Terry

[Peter Miller]

You were lucky to catch it before you had to run over the fabric covered areas! Now that would have made you as popular as the proverbial Pork chop.
I just realised, I have already designed the perfect twin trainer. My Waco PG-2. The Hadrian with two Ranger engines. Mine originally flew on two Cox .049s and then was converted to to Speed 400s with a 7 cell battery. Really neded a touch more power, a couple of small brushless motors or 1 to 1.5 c engine even better.
Plans still available from Traplet.

[Terence Lynock]

. Mine originally flew on two Cox .049s and then was converted to to Speed 400s with a 7 cell battery. Really neded a touch more power,

Stick a couple of brushless or race 480's in and see what happens, would a change of props do any good?,

regards, Terry

[Terence Lynock]

Just started a build of an old RCM&E plan for a twin boom 51'' span glider from 1985 called a 'Boomerang' which naturally enough was designed by an Australian gent, looks to be quite useful for flying along the coast and as I am quite handy for Wales it may be fun to play with.
Looking at building two pod fuselages for it one for glider and the other fitted with a small motor and pusher prop for the more windless days, just needs a resdesign on the rear fuse to get a motor into it.

What would you learned Gents recommend for a first fighter build?, someone has progressed through the glider/ trainer area and is looking at building his first fighter model but doesnt know what direction to go in, he fancies a Tempest V but would it be too much of a handful?,

regards, Terry

[Peter Miller]

The Tempest is very short in the nose, that means you might have to add lots of lead in the nose. Not good.
What size were you thinking about? i.e., what engine?
While I admit that it has been done to death, the Mustang is a great subject and would make a good first fighter in most sizes, Comparatively easy to build as well.

[Terence Lynock]

Hi Peter,
A mate of mine has already built a couple of gliders and then converted one to power and also a 'Miss Behavin' trainer but now wants to build a fighter, I have loads of plans for everything from WW1 to experimental German stuff but dont know just what to recommend.
I think his next stepping stone would best be electric and this is why he fancied a plan I have for a 46'' Tempest V with geared 500 motor, as you say a decent sized Mustang with the Clark 'Y' would be better suited I think, someone mentioned the Tempest was a bit of a pig to land for the less experienced pilots,

regards, Terry

[arthur bishop]

'Lo Terence, Hey,don't forget the Skua! Rocs stable mate,those F,A,A planes were built rugged,

[Peter Miller]

Terry
I can't help feeling that going straight to a fighter is a bit of a big step based on your mate's experience. Something non-scale, aerobatic with a low wing loading would seem to be a good intermediate step just the get his reflexes tuned up a bit.
Small fighters tend to be fast and don't give one much time to think.
If you have an existing Tempest plan presumably the designer has sorted out the possibility of needing nose weight. Anyway, doesn't the mark V have the Radial cowled engine which is longer that the original inline. I could go across and look at my books but I am too lazy.

[Terence Lynock]

If you have an existing Tempest plan presumably the designer has sorted out the possibility of needing nose weight. Anyway, doesn't the mark V have the Radial cowled engine which is longer that the original inline. I could go across and look at my books but I am too lazy.

Hi Peter,
he almost went out and spent a packet on the Sea Fury ARTF instead of the trainer he built but is determined to have a nice big fighter type now, told him to stay away from me 109 and other high wing loading types for the time being.
I have a plan for the Tempest V had the chin rad like the Typhoon speaking of which is the Autumn Special plan for the Tiff in the normal mag or a special addition like the Mk9 Spit plan was in the Plans Catalogue?.

I have even looked at the long-wing Ta 152 H-1 for him wondering it it would be suitable but not knowing much about the long-wing version I dont know,

regards, Terry

[Alistair Taylor]

Peter

thanks for the permission on enlarging/electrifying the shrike plan. I am honoured indeed.

Another of your plans (I believe!) that would fulfil your twin-trainer criterion just perfectly is of course the Cessna Skymaster - although inline twins might be considered cheating by some :)

On the topic of interesting designs, I find regular visits to the following website inspiring;

http://www.luft46.com/

Speaking personally I'm particularly tickled by the idea of building and flying one of these;

http://www.luft46.com/kwart/kw87-1.jpg

although the wing fairings look like they could wind up weighing a tonne if done with filler, or being very tricky if done with ply/balsa.

AlistairT

[Erfolg]

Terence

|I have built a Ta 152H, see picture at the begining of this thread.

It was buit with a 36inch span. Why to suit a sppeed 400 with 850, 7 cell nicad. This turned out to be a mistake, with the long nose and a heavy 480 (Kontronics with built in speed controller) evrything else had to go to the rear.

It is now undergoing conversion to brushless and lipo, Max CF2212 and about 1000mA battery. The weight distribution is now good, with bags of options for equipment. Also half the weight (thereabouts).

It is a model easy to design, although I made a mistake or two. The most obvious is no washout in the wing, in retrospect. Although I have cheated in the wing planform, The 152H is a highly tapered wing, I have reduced this. Used E205 for section.

In all other respects the proportions appear to be good:

a) Nose about one wing chord
b) Tail moment arm about 2.75 chord
c) Tail plane area +15%
d) Little cross sectional area, relative to wing size
e) Nose remarkably streamlined, particularly for a radial radiator, (compares well with Hurricane, Tyhoon etc.)

the down side is the tip chord is twice roo chord (hence cheat)

You do need to build up the fin, shhet fin does not look right, tried it, then rebuilt. The wing loading is 12.8 oz per foot squared.

My model was designed from

1) The Focke-Wulf a Famous German Fighter, Heinz Nowarra
2) War planes of the Third Reich,William Green



It is an all sheet (covered) model, doped tissue, sprayed Humbrol finish.

I think a 48" version would be ideal, first post novice model, virtually trainer like proportions.

I Recently read or heard on TV, that one of the full size wartime)pilots of these aircraft, said it was like flying a glider, in its forgiving nature.

Regards

Erfolg

[Terence Lynock]

I Recently read or heard on TV, that one of the full size wartime)pilots of these aircraft, said it was like flying a glider, in its forgiving nature.


Thought of modding it as a high altitude variant H-1? wingspan was about 47 feet so would be even more like a glider at low altitude I should think, I have a plan file on my HDD somewhere of the long wing variant if you want it mate,prints out in 'Tile Print' at about 5 sheets,

regards, Terry