stu knowles Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I have been away from the box for a while so have only just happened on this thread. I would like to say that I think that the BMFA works well. When there have been challenges and threat to the hobby on a national scale, the BMFA countered them very well. When organising fly ins and club days, the local area committee supported the event with practical help which included picking up a three figure bill on every occasion. At club level they offer guidance and support if asked, Planning threats and site advice They stage the Nats and support the whole spectrum of aeromodelling. Before asking for reform, why not try engaging with the system as it is, you may find that it does much more than you know? stu k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted March 18, 2011 Author Share Posted March 18, 2011 With regard to my club, yes we have a committee, but we also have a monthly full club meeting which is well attended by all the active flying members. We all get a chance to express our views. If something urgent comes up the Chairman simply emails us and asks for input. Wage negoiation, well as it happens I negoiate my own salary with my employer - though I concide that is not common. The point about what if the committee decides against the majority expressed view is an interesting and challenging one. But in my view that shouldn't happen if the organisation is well lead and engages in effective communication. Many organisations have to push through changes the members don't really want - but under such circumstances its beholden on those in leadership positions to convince the membership that the unpaletable is necessary and, in reality, in their long term interests. I am a member of the British Computer Society, recently they had this problem - the leadership circulated the members with information on exactly why the unpopular action was necessary and what would happen if we didn't do it. I was not surpised when, having been properly informed, the members did the responsible thing and voted for the difficult measure. If the leadership can't do this - well maybe they don't have the confidence of their members and that brings into question wether they should be there. One final thing. Andy was made the point yesterday that capturing email addresses, in order to make this sort of thing work, would put an unreasonable burden on clubs. Why? Clubs wouldn't do. You can buy a professional level database system for under £200 that will generate a secure form for the website. If people wish to participate, and receive information, they will take the trouble of entering and updating their own personal information on the BMFA website - just like 19,000+ members do on here. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted March 18, 2011 Author Share Posted March 18, 2011 Stu, if you had read the thread you would know that I have tried engaging with the BMFA - not sucessfully! We keep having this view - "why don't you just engage?" Well aside from trying and having failed - look at it from the other side. Most members don't engage that's the fact - why do you think that is? Its not good enough to just say "Its the member's fault - they should amend their ways to fit in with the BMFA way of doing things". As I keep saying, that might have been good enough for 1960, but that's not the way the world works anymore - people expect more. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cantwell Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 great discussion BEB, i dont actually think its as easy as the picture you paint, but at least this one has not decended into anarchy as i have seen other forums, i dont know the answer, is it as easy as a national email thing, as you suggest? will members actually even bother with even that? will we ever know?????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 18/03/2011 22:34:57:One final thing. Andy was made the point yesterday that capturing email addresses, in order to make this sort of thing work, would put an unreasonable burden on clubs. Why? Clubs wouldn't do. You can buy a professional level database system for under £200 that will generate a secure form for the website. If people wish to participate, and receive information, they will take the trouble of entering and updating their own personal information on the BMFA website - just like 19,000+ members do on here. BEB Sorry, I don't think that is good enough, if email is going to be used to disseminate important information you need to be pretty sure it gets to as near as possible 100% of the membership and you just will not get that with emails. First of all there will be a large number of members who don't have email, they should not be disenfranchised. Then you have the problem of people registering incorrectly and changes of email address, emails caught in spam filters etc. Email is simply not reliable enough for use as a method of getting info out to members. What is required is some way of getting news out that you can be pretty sure almost 100% of members will get. Maybe something like a posted out newsletter containing news about the BMFA and whats going on maybe Manny could do an article in that every issue, I dunno, maybe call it something like Chacksfield Chat or other catchy title. Can't imagine what you could call the newsletter though. Edited By Andy Symons on 18/03/2011 22:50:35 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cantwell Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 eee imagine the furor if the email list from the office was hacked!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted March 18, 2011 Author Share Posted March 18, 2011 Its good enough for all the major professional bodies, trade unions, political parties and even supermarkets, banks, telecom companies, bookshops, charities, local authorities, schools, other clubs and societies, including model aeroplane clubs etc. etc. Strange that BMFA is so unique BEB Do you really know anyone who can afford an RC model aeroplane without an email address? Even if there is half a dozen - we'll post it out to them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Posted by Alan C on 18/03/2011 22:54:29:eee imagine the furor if the email list from the office was hacked!!!!! lol, I'd rather not thanks. I mentioned it earlier in this thread but as a guide, the BMFA classifieds has 5300 registered users, of those 1800 have opted out of news email about the classifieds. I had cause to send out an email to the registered users last week, of the 3500 sent, 800 came back email address not valid. So lets imagine that there are 35000 BMFA members all having email, lets scale up that failure rate to match, not an unreasonable thing to do, so we now have 8000 members not getting the emails. IIRC about 30 BMFA news get returned every mailing due to address/postcode errors. Seems to me that the prehistoric method of print on paper and posting is far far better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 18/03/2011 23:00:42: Do you really know anyone who can afford an RC model aeroplane without an email address? Even if there is half a dozen - we'll post it out to them! Well first of all there are more than just RC modellers in the BMFA, but yes I know quite a few, in one of my clubs (i'm the secretary) about 20% don't have email, if that was matched across the membership thats 7200. Now I can honestly say I don't know any BMFA member that doesn't have a letterbox!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bott - Moderator Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Does anyone actually think that every single member reads the BMFA comic from cover to cover, hanging on every word just in case there's some important news? Yes it lands on every ones doormat, but many a time I've mentioned something in the mag to a fellow club member and they have't had a clue. So would a message in an email actually reach the conciousness of less members? I'm not so sure. Now if we had both... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 18/03/2011 23:00:42:Its good enough for all the major professional bodies, trade unions, political parties and even supermarkets, banks, telecom companies, bookshops, charities, local authorities, schools, other clubs and societies, including model aeroplane clubs etc. etc. Really? I know someone who is a unite member, important stuff is posted out, usually in the magazine that arrives. Strike votes are done by a postal ballot. Can't imaging it is just that particular union so mired in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Posted by Chris Bott on 18/03/2011 23:09:36:Does anyone actually think that every single member reads the BMFA comic from cover to cover, hanging on every word just in case there's some important news? Yes it lands on every ones doormat, but many a time I've mentioned something in the mag to a fellow club member and they have't had a clue. So would a message in an email actually reach the conciousness of less members? I'm not so sure. Now if we had both... Whatever medium is used you will get those that simply don't read it, all that can be asked from the BMFA (IMHO) is that they all get a chance to read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bott - Moderator Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Why use the word meduim in the singular? If I receive a short email headed "IMPORTQANT NEWS" I am far more likley to read it than I am to spot something hidden in a magazine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Privett Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 18/03/2011 23:00:42: Do you really know anyone who can afford an RC model aeroplane without an email address? Even if there is half a dozen - we'll post it out to them! Actually yes, rather a lot. Our club membership currently numbers 219 with quite a few still to wake up from their winter hibernation and renew... Out of that, 48 have given no email address. That's over 22% of the club who can't be contacted by email. Scale that up to the 36,000 BMFA members, and that's around 8,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bott - Moderator Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 But is that a reason not to use every communication channel possible? Keep the message in the magazine as well, to catch the minority who still need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Privett Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I'm certainly not suggesting that email shouldn't be used as part of the communications process. Just pointing out that the assumption that nearly everybody has email/internet access is not as true as some people think. We are all - by our very existence on the forum - internet users, and we probably tend to assume that everybody else is too. But to say that future decision making could be internet-based will exclude about a quarter of the membership from that process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytilbroke Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 The numbers of people being guestimated as NOT having E-mail, (really Internet) is not an excesive estimate in my experience. Not the way to go as the information dissemination method. Much as I would prefer it were I a BMFA member. That leaves the paper method, the expensive paper method. Can you imagine the outcry from the members if they were asked to pay the cost on a monthly or would that be a weekly basis? Now, although a substantial minority do not have Internet access, BEB's post No: 3507 (NO THAT IS NOT CORRECT MORE THAN ONE HAS THAT NUMBER) one of them anyway has some decent merit. The feedback from such a possible sample could be sufficient to give a true veiwpoint of the membership. One of the main problems highlighted, perceived lack of two way information is even worse in the SAA membership. The lack of a decently run SAA Forum has the same impact as the lack in the BMFA, whose forum collapsed first and was followed on by the SAA forum removal, due to the idiots who thought they were,,,, well whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Posted by flytilbroke on 19/03/2011 00:13:01:One of the main problems highlighted, perceived lack of two way information is even worse in the SAA membership. The lack of a decently run SAA Forum has the same impact as the lack in the BMFA, whose forum collapsed first and was followed on by the SAA forum removal, due to the idiots who thought they were,,,, well whatever.Other national aeromodelling associations have had problems with forums and closed them just like the BMFA did. Personally I would like to see a new BMFA forum however it would need to be heavily moderated, you wouldn't be able to expect the elected officers to use it, and you have to be realistic because views expressed and even results of polls cannot be taken as represenatative of the general membership. Someone said earlier that there was about 19000 users of this forum, however there may be 19000 peopler have registered over the years but 19000 users?? I would be surprised if there was more than 50 regular posters (we get more than that at our club meetings) and how many regular readers is anyones guess. Email would be fine for non-important stuff but it is too unreliable and not inclusive enough for anything of even slight importance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu knowles Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 I can't imagine what issue would cause the BMFA to meed to contact all of its members so urgently? and to do so would bypass those members and groups which form the existing structure. I also think it likely that if members were afforded such easy access to the centre, then they would be inundated with puerile complaints that 'so and so flies like a lemon but has a B certificate.'' My club committee won't do what I want them to do and many many more.' None of which have anything to do with the BMFA. The demise of the BMFA forum was due (in part) to a few members stridently refusing to believe that their views were not popular or wanted, and perhaps give an indication of what might happen if there was direct access. BEB this is a hot topic for you and I doubt that anything said by others will cause you to change your mind. In my view, if the BMFA were to be organised along the lines that you suggest, the outcome would be pretty disastrous. If 28000 people were supposed to take all of their questions, suggestions and needs straight to the centre, then nothing would get done because te centre would be overwhelmed. By having the centre do what the centre does and the area committees do what they do, linking together at regular intervals, then order is maintained and everyone has a voice. The system works, I haven't seen anything in your suggestions which ( I feel ) would be an improvement. Good debate though. stu k Edited By stu knowles on 19/03/2011 08:42:52 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cantwell Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 hence my comment about needing a call centre, good post Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cantwell Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 thinks, if the BMFA go this way, how long before a question on the phone is answered by an asian voice just jesting, as i have mentioned, there IS a system in place that takes into account all the geographic locations of the UK, its just sad that its not used by the membership, i hear many many comments of why do we need the BMFA, what do they do for us, etc etc, and strangley, when something goes wrong, when a field is threatened, the same scoffers are on the phone yelling HEEEELLLPPPPP!!! nowt wrong with that, its what the association is for, SO, any problems, anything you want changed, PLEASE, as much as it hurts, go to your area, discuss it, get it moving down the channels, even BeBs thoughts and ideas would have to be done this way, but right now, there sits, in many meeting places, once a month, a panel of guys, with reps from maybe 5% of your areas clubs, deciding YOUR modeling future, dont like this? then go along and give your views, it does work, honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Posted by stu knowles on 19/03/2011 08:40:17:I also think it likely that if members were afforded such easy access to the centre, then they would be inundated with puerile complaints that 'so and so flies like a lemon but has a B certificate.'' My club committee won't do what I want them to do and many many more.' None of which have anything to do with the BMFA. Hi Stu Hows things with you? Fly-in at Pontefract tomorrow if your interested. There are quite a few emails like those that you describe arrive at HQ already, if all members started going straight to the office and the area structure is removed I would think an increase in paid staff numbers would be required witha a corresponding increase in subs to pay for them. It may well be that is what members would prefer, but judging by complaints when the subs go up be even £1 it is hard to imagine members going for that. That said if indeed there is a groundswell for change I shall look forward to hearing about it through the area channels as at the moment, rightly or wrongly, that is how it has to be done and the only way changes will happen, and also not too difficult for anyone who feels strongly enough about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cantwell Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 call centre in mumbai perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Posted by Alan C on 19/03/2011 09:13:56:call centre in mumbai perhaps? Indeed, perhaps there is a groundswell of opinion for the BMFA to be run like a commercial organisation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cantwell Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 BMFA Areas this of help to anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.