The joy of slope

[Phil May]

Hi Guys

Can I ask a couple of questions please, obviously totally new to sloping with a beat up Zagi.

1 - My launching in the video, the model drops initially compared to Steve's and I'm not sure why. ( I carried out a C of G test ie, 45 degree dive, hands of and it kept at that angle )

2 - I was unable to loop, it just run out of puff at the top.

3 - Will not roll, I have about 18 mm control surface movment.

4 - I plan to strip off the covering this week and re-cover with tape, the model is also covered in fibre-glass type tape do I give this a light sanding before applying the adhesive & colored tape.

And finally, what is max wind speed for a Zagi,

 

Sorry so many

 

Phil

Edited By Big Phil on 08/08/2011 14:42:53

[Steve Houghton 1]

Phil

 

On launching, particularly into a good blow, it does want to be pointing downwards slightly, but on that day, with a light breeze, I deemed that unnecessary and threw mine horizontally. I think you just gave it too much down thrust mate, remembering also that you threw it with your left hand and not your right, so that would probably make a difference.

 

There wasn't really enough wind to start doing aero's Phil, I did manage a few with the Beevo but only after I'd brought it from behind me and put it into a dive after it had gone past the ridge, the same with the rolls. I think, with a bit more wind you wouldn't have a problem mate.

 

You don't need to sand the GF tape Phil, just give it a wipe over with acetone (nail varnish remover available at the supermarket for about £1.50) or meths/white spirit.

 

Max speed? Fast enough mate for the moment. I'm considering getting a Ron Broughton Balistik. Now that is fast! Especially for a foamy.

[Tim Mackey]

Posted by Steve Hargreaves on 08/08/2011 13:51:51:

 

Ring, ring......"Hello....is that Alan at Soar Ahead Sailplanes.....I wanted to talk to you about a Wildthing.....it all started in 1978 you say? Really....I see....& then what happened...? You don't say.....Ah ha!!..I see......(contd on page 94)

 

LOVL

He does like a chat doesnt he

[Tim Mackey]

Posted by Big Phil on 08/08/2011 14:42:24:

Hi Guys

Can I ask a couple of questions please, obviously totally new to sloping with a beat up Zagi.

1 - My launching in the video, the model drops initially compared to Steve's and I'm not sure why. ( I carried out a C of G test ie, 45 degree dive, hands of and it kept at that angle )

2 - I was unable to loop, it just run out of puff at the top.

3 - Will not roll, I have about 18 mm control surface movment.

4 - I plan to strip off the covering this week and re-cover with tape, the model is also covered in fibre-glass type tape do I give this a light sanding before applying the adhesive & colored tape.

And finally, what is max wind speed for a Zagi,

 

Sorry so many

 

Phil

Edited By Big Phil on 08/08/2011 14:42:53

 

1) Personally, with a straightforward wing, I find holding the nose ( 4 fingers on top thumb underneath ) gives a better launch. There is a tendency to inadvertently push the tail down a little when pushing from the rear - which obviously then pitches the nose up. You dont want UP when launching on the slope, or bad things happen - usually behind you.

2) More speed.

3) more speed, and more aileron movement - dont expect full axial rolls, they are likely to be a bit barrely.

4) You could do, but I think you will find that most of the original release agent on the CW tape will come off with the original covering.

5) Depends on pilot ability - I have flown a 16 oz sli[pstream ( zagi clone ) in 60MPH. launching is the hardest, once out in smooth air, it doesnt care how much wind there is. Arrivals can be fun too

Edited By Tim Mackey - Administrator on 08/08/2011 16:05:40

[Devon Flyer]

Wings are very sensitive to elevator movement - hence such a small amount used for setting them up, compared to aileron movement. Consequently they will also be extremely sensitive to pitch angle on a launch - especially in higher winds, where control surfaces have more authority. Conventional airframes are much easier to launch 'straight and level' than a wing.

Just watch others launching a wing in a high wind; you will eather see a dive straight into the deck, an instant loop or a short series of porpoising - unless the flyer is on top of his game. Discus launches can help.

 

Rolls and loops are energy sapping manouvres and require speed to execute neatly. The only energy available to us is gravity pulling us down and air movement pushing us up ( to put it in simple terms) speed is attained by playing one off against the other ( again, to put it in simple terms). Gravity is a constant; air movement is variable. Hence, we have more fun in a high wind as we can use the extra energy it provides to our advantage.

One thing that you will learn when sloping, is that elevator controls speed. This is true of all flying; it's just more apparent with a glider.

 

 

 

 

[Tim Mackey]

My method.

[Conwy Soarer]

Glad you edited that Tim - I was wondering with 4 fingers on top and 4 underneath where you put your thumbs, it would also be difficult to do if you didnt have a TX strap

 

Just been flying my Kinetic 800 on a little slope down here had great fun, forecast said 20mph but it was gusting to 43! Kinetic coped OK, note to self its more fun to fly on smaller slopes like sand dunes.

 

With regards Chevrons our rule is if you can stand up (albeit at a funny angle) you can fly, the holding it at the front method is great as it just flies behind, I find a slightly loose grip better. Another tip if you find launching hard in strong wind is to drop down the slope a bit to launch. Also trying taping on a bit of ballast experiment with the amount. I have flown an XIt on the Orme in over 100mph wind measured at the lip with about half an A4 of roofing lead duck taped on it flew OK but not brilliant, on landing I cut 2/3 of the lead off and reatached it flew much better

[Tim Mackey]

LOL, you must have read it immediately after I posted !!

[Devon Flyer]

You could always fly Mode 1.

Then you can launch with your right arm and have your left thumb on the elevator stick as you launch.

Works for me.

[Conwy Soarer]

Posted by Devon Flyer on 08/08/2011 16:38:58:

You could always fly Mode 1.

Then you can launch with your right arm and have your left thumb on the elevator stick as you launch.

Works for me.

I fly Mode 5 that way works for me too!

[Tim Mackey]

I DO fly mode 1

[Conwy Soarer]

Posted by Tim Mackey - Administrator on 08/08/2011 17:03:39:
I DO fly mode 1

I think DF missed out on my joke about your post cos you spotted your mistake and redited it and got a bit confused.

[Phil May]

Thanks guys

obviously more practice in a bit more wind, I'm hoping to go to the Meio on Wednesday evening and i think it is forecast 15 - 20 mph.

I fly i.c in this wind speed comfortably, but on the top of a mountain.... who knows what will happen.

Mode 1 on sloping, mode 2 on i.c, I think I know where that would end up ...........

I've only had one go up to now, but after flying i.c there is something drawing me to non-powered flying.....IYKWIM

 

Cheers guys, I expect many more questions will appear over the next few weeks

 

Phil

[Tim Mackey]

Almost 6600 hits on this thread - sounds like combat

Come on now you powered fliers....join in, after all that's what the OP was designed for.

[Ian Jones]

Posted by Steve Hargreaves on 08/08/2011 13:51:51:

 

Ring, ring......"Hello....is that Alan at Soar Ahead Sailplanes.....I wanted to talk to you about a Wildthing.....it all started in 1978 you say? Really....I see....& then what happened...? You don't say.....Ah ha!!..I see......(contd on page 94)

 

I'm surprised you got through Steve, did you have to wait for me to get off the line?

Er, Yes, I've got a little parcel on the way .

[Tim Mackey]

Had a great day yesterday up the orme - as usual

Around 25 modellers wih over 30 models between us. Fabulous weather - Leek and moorland lads mainly, with a few of us locals sprinkled in.

Simon Cocker brought ( amongst several other models ) his gorgeous big Blanik, but the day was mainly filled with mouldies screeching through the air.

A few nice scale models too, and a couple of PSS jets to boot, all finished off with ususal hilarious combat session

My picture attempts were rubbish, but a here's a few that didnt get knecked.

 

Below is Chris Perkins at a recent L and M meeting, with his rather nice Grunau Baby which is very shortly to become mine, for aerotow and slope use

 

[ken anderson.]

good pics there tim...looks like a good day had.......theres a HTP meeting tomorrow ...we're letting the little lad(enrico) of theleash for a couple of hours.....

 

 

ken anderson ne..1 .... HTP country..

[stephen wenban]

Ian,

Really sorry about loosing your Zagi but here's just a thought , have you cut foam cores before ? if you have simply cut yourself a set of wings the same size and span as your Zagi ,Except use a PW51 section at 8 or 9% thickness . Even blue foam fibre taped and laminating film covered are tough enough to last . Not as tough as EPP but half the price . Or even tough of course and cheap as chips is corroflute and they fly extremely well here's a link that explains them as and they are tough and pretty much indestructible 

just copy and paste the link  below

http://www.zipworld.com.au/~dazb/dAzi/dAzi.html

Edited By stephen wenban on 08/08/2011 21:25:50

Edited By stephen wenban on 08/08/2011 21:26:29

[Ian Jones]

Interesting Stephen but I haven't cut cores before and wouldn't know where to start. .

 

I knew a chap that used to make IC aircraft out of Corex which I think is the same as the corroflute you mention. The last time I saw him fly it, it clapped it's wings then disappeared into a corn field for a month . It was a very old model and had probably just had enough!

 

Applying the "getting back on the bike" principle I have today ordered a new wing thing - the SAS Fusion. It just has to be something tough, fast & agile, nothing to do with my flying, no, no. It's that certain people have ideas about using me for target practice and I don't intend to let them have any more success than I can help . If I can turn on them then so much the better .

 

Thanks for the suggestions.

[Tim Mackey]

That sounds like fighting talk there Mr

[Ian Jones]

  You bet, what else? Just want me float around for any old Tim, Rich or Harry to come along and bounce me around the sky?

Edited By Ian Jones on 08/08/2011 23:47:34

[Steve Houghton 1]

Nice pics Tim. Heck, it doesn't half get busy up on the Orme. If we see 8 people at the Bwlch on a weekend its a busy day, theres usually just 3 of us week in, week out.

 

This thread is red hot at the moment eh.

[Wingman]

Thought I'd have a go at this slope business. Made up a JP Bullet I've had for years. Waited weeks for an easterly wind without the usual sea mist. Finally east wind 10kts clear. Down the beach, 30 minute hoof to the top of a 200ft high dune. The rain started to spit. Threw the Bullet off the front side and down it went. .Climbed down the dune, retrieved plane, climbed back up to top, connected rx battery(a few wee swearies here!) tested control surfaces. The rain came on heavier. Threw it off front side turned it along slope and down it went . Climbed down the dune, retrieved plane, climbed back up to top. Adjusted elevator for more deflection threw it off the front side and down it went. The rain came on heavier. Climbed down the dune, retrieved plane, climbed back up to top. Adjusted ailerons to give a bit more camber for more lift. Threw it off front side turned it along slope and down it went . Rain dingin' doon. Climbed down the dune, retrieved plane, climbed back up to top. Threw it off front side turned it along slope and down it went . Climbed down the dune, retrieved plane, climbed back up to top. Threw it off front side turned it along slope and down it went . Climbed down the dune, retrieved plane, climbed back up to top. Threw it off front side turned it along slope and down it went out of sight - took half an hour to find in the pouring rain. At this point I reminded myself that I'm 58 not 28 and didn't want to die all alone miles from anywhere at the bottom of a sand dune in the pouring rain so dragged myself back through the dunes soaking wet freezing cold (in August!!!) and got myself home to my loving wife who proceeded to cast dispersions on my parentage and sanity while I gently dripped on the kitchen floor. I think I'm beginning to see "why don't more peeps do it"

[Wiltshire Flyer]

Wingman, did you not think to yourself after 20mins, "hmmm maybe i'll go home get dry and run some test glides in the garden tomorrow!!!" lol..... you know what they say! no pain no gain! but seriously, once you have that first succesful flight you will fully understand why it is so addictive

[Wingman]

Ah DF but I'd waited ages for the east wind with no fog attached and anyway you should see my leg muscles now