Art-Tech EF2000 on a slope

[Ian Jones]

One of the most disappointing aircraft I have ever owned, actually come to think of it is the most disappointing fixed wing aircraft I have ever owned.

 

Quite a number of issues which I won't elaborate on at the moment but the most troublesome being a lack thrust which I had improved immensley by fitting a new (genuine art-tech) motor & fan. Except the motor burnt out after a few flights .

 

I've had the thing for 3 years at least and currently I just keep moving it around garage instead of throwing it away.

 

 

Dave Guilder has a foam Goshawk which flies off slopes very well so why not this EF2000? Actual flying characteristics are not that bad - it's other things that have been an issue so why not strip almost everything out of it (better keep the Rx), bin the undercarraige and instead of kicking it down the garden, chuck it off hill top?

 

Edited By Ian Jones on 03/12/2011 17:23:36

Edited By Ian Jones on 03/12/2011 17:23:54

[Frank Skilbeck]

Go for it, probably best to block the inlet ducts to stop the parasitic drag. Don't make it too light or it may struggle to penetrate in a blow.

 

Let us know how you get on.

[Ian Jones]

Okay I will.

 

It will be very light when I've stripped it down. Any suggestions for a target weight?

 

It's fitted a with Art-tech's servos AS-100 9 gram servos, torque 1.2Kg/cm - okay for sloping?

[Matt Jones]

I've flown a few EDF foamies as PSS with good results. Agree with Frank about blocking the inlets. I conclusively proved last year that my Lander Hunter flew better with them blocked off so did the same to all my others

 

As for target weight they will fly better with some ballast. How much will be trial and error so start 'dry' and see how it is then add some and see what difference it makes. I would suggest you want to add enough to put the wing loading up a couple of oz per square ' each time.

[Ian Jones]

That's very encouraging Matt.

 

I'll just add enough weight to balance it and take it from there then. I'll just stick some foam in the inlets.

 

Should have it flying soon I hope.

[Fly_Boy_Rez]

Looking forward to seeing it gracing the skies Ian!

 

Rez

[RichieW]

Hi Ian, looks similar to Tim's saab, which he had a few issues with.

 

At the weekend he had it flying with Phil and Steve I think he had to ballast it up and then

chucked it into the 40mph winds, it flew the best I've seen, it a bit more scaley than with lesser weight in . But it really did look spot on flying alongside the hawk.

 

I think he also has blocked the inlets as well as putting some good ammounts of lead in it.

 

I'm going to have to get a pss model at his rate.

Rich

[Ian Jones]

Hello Rich,

 

Hmm, I missed it flying, did see it in the pits but I didn't realise it was Tim's.

 

If it can't fly in 40 mph it's no use use to the likes of us eh?

 

Yeah, go on get yerself somthing scaley (no not a lizard, very few of them fly very well) you know you want to really

[Tim Mackey]

Yup, definately block off the inlets - I tried it both ways, and locked is definitely lower drag.

My Sabb is very light and  a bit of a floater - and in anything above 10MPH it just wont get a move on - so with Sundays predicted 30 MPH+ winds, almost 1lb of ballast was added the night before and it sure made a difference.

An earlier sortie on a sunnier day !

 

I think I'd change those servos for something a little better Ian.

Edited By Tim Mackey on 08/12/2011 00:14:45

[Wiltshire Flyer]

Good idea Ian! good luck mate

[Ian Jones]

Posted by Fly_Boy_Rez on 07/12/2011 21:51:18:

Looking forward to seeing it gracing the skies Ian!

 

Rez

Thanks Rez, I hope grace will be the right word we shall see.

Posted by Dorset flyer on 08/12/2011 00:16:41:
Good idea Ian! good luck mate

Ta DF

So taking on board the advice offered so far, here's a short video outlining how I see the job:

[Ian Jones]

New servos on the way. Airtek 9ht's

[Ian Jones]

Okay less a talkin' n more a doin'...

 

First off is the main undercarraige but the seating plate and the bridges had to go back on because without them the corresponding plate on top of the wing would come out and then there would be a hole .

Servos next, not difficult, they were just held in by some tacky glue like stuff:

The new servos will be these:

but I'll leave the rudder as is, for the time being at least.

 

Speaking of the rudder and it's servo - as is often the case this also operated the noseleg steering but with one continuous wire!

So, it out with the side cutters:

and when that was done it was simple disconnect the noseleg to remove it.

 

The fan was fitted into a removable peice of foam screwed into the underside, so that came out next but the fan didn't want to come out of the foam. I found that a gentle, gradual pulling was easing it off the double sided tape that was causing the problem, then, oops :

This is a job for Super Glue and his Side Kicker :

So with all the bits removed what have I got:

Well it could do with paint here and there:

The use of restraints has crushed the leading edges a little:

and the front and rear parts have gone their seperate ways on more than one occasion:

 

Edited By Ian Jones on 05/01/2012 01:49:58

[Ian Jones]

Woah! that was nice - a warning that my post was too long, how long has that been in place? Brilliant, I just cut the rest of the original post and pasted it here:

 

So a rather bashed about bit of foam that when I've modified it may or may not survive and may or may not be worth keeping. That sums up the nature of the job I'm going to do with it - good enough to fly with first, then if I like it I'll look into tidying up the unsightly bits and maybe even add some wing stores (to protect the elevon rods and connectors).

 

So looking towards kitting out and where things are going to go I need to know where the CG is (because I've forgotten). Conveniently it lines up with one of the fuselage panels:

Now with the CG reference point established it's a case of finding where the battery needs to go to balance it and it was here:

Well the battery could go there with some shoe-horning but is that what I want? I don't think so because with all the kit added it will weigh in at just 16 ounces:

That can't be enough and there's loads of room under the canopy:

... and the switch harness would be convenient in there too. Possibly a safer place for the Rx too, but who nose what to expect . With the battery in the nose, loads of weight will needed towards the rear to balance it so that should deal with the weight problem. I'd better go and do some research on wing loading so that I can set a target weight then. Hmm, what should that be?

 

 

 

 

Edited By Ian Jones on 05/01/2012 01:47:09

Edited By Ian Jones on 05/01/2012 01:50:21

[Tim Mackey]

On the slope I wouldnt worry too much - these deltas especially have tendency to be draggy and slow and benefit from adding weight to get 'em moving. At that size, I suggest anything up to around 2lb or so AUW will be fine in anything but a sparrows fart of lift.

[Matt Jones]

What he ^ said

[Ian Jones]

Okay thanks chaps.

 

I don't want it too floaty but on the other hand I don't think it will be venturing out in big winds either. So I'll balance it with the battery under the canopy and if it's 1.5 - 2lbs I'll use that for a starting point.

[Steve Houghton 1]

Ok, this thread has got me thinking about the F-86 Sabre I have sitting in the garage doing nothing

[Tim Mackey]

Yup, a chum had/has a decent sized one which flew well on the slope - I think Andy Conway also had one this year at the PSSA meet.

Sabre

[Steve Houghton 1]

Maybe think about that for the spring

[Ian Jones]

A bit of delay due to the need to have something to chuck around our field since ROGs are pretty much impossible at the moment.

 

Good bet is the Vampire but I almost ripped the bottom out that on the frozen field last winter so whilst I was doing that up I did something about visibility too:

 

 

A few little jobs on the white Fizza) and the blue Jack Rabbit then I'll be able to get back to fitting out the EF2000.

Edited By Ian Jones on 19/01/2012 22:41:00

Edited By Ian Jones on 19/01/2012 22:41:31

[Ian Jones]

Some more work done at last.

As advised I've blocked the air intake:

Some CG checking indicates that the battery should go under the canopy together with the switch harness:

A good home for RX is in place of the unit as all the servo leads can meet nicely here, the antennas can be set-up and there's an access hatch if I ever need to get in there. It's also in a good place for a heavy landing!

The Rx light has an interesting effect:

Next jobs are to reinforce the underneath and make us if the under tray for ballast:

My initial idea was CW tape for strength and to make a hinge for the cover on which weight(s) would be attached. Cover the CW tape with Silver tape (not metalised tape!).

However Goose10 has mentioned the use of Plasti-kote here and since the whole thing could do with a lick of paint I'm considering that too.

Since I haven't decided exactly how I'm going to do that yet suggestions welcome.

Ian

[Ian Jones]

As well as the ballast question I mentioned there's the target final weight.

The orginal weight was 16 ozs which I would think would be a bit light - at the same time I don't want a brick. I see the test flight being on a fairly calm day but all the same I'm think that I may take the starting weight up to 1 1/2 lbs.

Ian

[Steve Houghton 1]

Ian - Is that a Minima RX I see there? Are you using it with the Eclipse 7 Pro? Cause I thought they weren't compatible!

Steve

A470Soaring.blogspot.com

[Mike Etheridge 1]

Many years ago my nephew Nigel had the idea to remove the 20 engine from his 'Club 20 Racer' and replace it with an equivalent amount of lead. We then took the plane plus others to Devils Dyke in Sussex where my task was to launch the Club 20 Racer as hard as I could off the slope. The result was amazing the Club 20 Racer flew at a tremendous rate and could cover the length of the ridge in no time. It could roll also at a phenominal rate but refused to loop. This experience suggested to me that you could fly most planes 'off the slope'.

What happened to the 'club 20 Racers?

MJE