Crane Fly Trainer Autogyro

[bees]

Hi Tom, will put a little bit of right thrust before my next flight. Regarding throws I have actually increased a fraction and feel more comfortable .

Edited By bees on 14/08/2013 19:38:37

[Tom Wright 2]

Posted by John Dean on 14/08/2013 17:03:02:

Hi Tom. After problems with my Crane Fly looping I went and bought a new battery for my inclinometer and set it up properly! Had 3 trimming flights today and all went well, still a bit of a tendency to climb on power so I think I will try a bit of down thrust. ROG was good so I managed to make the Durafly G2 flyers slightly jealous although I do have one and enjoy that as well.

Thanks, John

Glad to hear you got it flying ok , I would only add more down thrust if she is tending to climb at a steady cruise speed .The model is not really designed to be flown fast as auto gyros can be harder to fly at speed .It also depends if you are on the 1.5" or 2" blades ,having said that it is capable of a very good turn of speed on the 1.5" blades when trimmed to suit.

Tom.

[Foamie Dave]

Posted by Tom Wright 2 on 11/08/2013 13:52:45:

I needed a 6" x 1.5 mm flex plate to do the testing on the AJ 550 blades so a call to Cool Wind on Friday resulted in two plates arriving Saturday morning ,giving me loads of time to fit the bearing set ,and fly in the afternoon. Good service Cool Wind .

Tom.

Just like to second what Tom said. Absolutely cracking service and superb products from Malcolm over at CoolWind. Thanks for the heads up Tom and cheers Malcolm for all your help. Much appreciated, Dave

[Handyman]

Hi Tom, any news on when the blades are going to be on sale. I would like to make my own, but would rather buy a set if I can. The coolwind site really seems to be the bees knees and the fibreglass parts are very well done in the photograph.Keep up the good work. Tony.

[Tom Wright 2]

Tony

I believe a significant amount of blades have been made,put in stock and, meet the same standard as the production samples I received and, have since flown , it's just a matter sorting out the the Internet shop which I understand could be on line before the end of this month.

Tom.

[bees]

Still got some shake rattle and roll with my Cranefly and feel sure it is caused by some play in the rotor bolt or maybe some flex on the rotor plate aim not sure as I have taken my blades off and given them a once over and they seem okay .

[Tom Wright 2]

Posted by bees on 17/08/2013 17:04:28:

Still got some shake rattle and roll with my Cranefly and feel sure it is caused by some play in the rotor bolt or maybe some flex on the rotor plate aim not sure as I have taken my blades off and given them a once over and they seem okay .

Glen

Shake can be caused by a variety of reasons here are some to consider , and may also be helpful to others looking in.

Comparative blade weight should be within better than 1 grm .

The chord cog should be the same on each blade.

The span wise blade balance point should be the same on each blade plus or minus 2 mm.

Blade bolt holes must be accurately positioned relative to the tip and chord position .

Slight differences in shim thickness , gradient , or position from the bolt hole centre can cause tracking errors , (differential lift ) and vibration.

Any errors in the plate blade hole relative positions and reference distance to the rotor bolt centre can cause tracking problems and shake .

Over tight blade root bolts will not allow the blades to find there natural position and result in significant shake .

Slight blade warps can cause tracking errors and shake . If all three blades have equal warps then spin up and lift efficiency will be changed. Equal negative warps will improve spin up but reduce lift . Best to have perfectly flat blades .

Play in the rotor shaft bearings will accentuate any imbalance present in the rotors and blade.

Unsealed / uncovered blades will tend to change in weight depending on the degree of dry out or moisture absorption .

Your blades looked very well made Glen have you added covering since we flew at Winterton ? I do not recall any shake on that occasion. The under carriage is a very sensitive shake indicator and will respond to quite a small out of balance situation.

Tom.

[bees]

Hi Tom. Only thing i have done is add some colour to the tips but i have taken the blades off and weighed them and they are near enough equal. I have allso checked and balanced them span wise and they are okay. Chord wise they are the same as before and not much i can do. I have solved the issue of the little bit of play regarding the rotor bolt so if i still get a bit of vibration i will be looking at the rotor plate next, might send for one from coolwind. Dont forget the Cranefly has had a couple of bumps before i successfully flew it with out any mishap and must admit it has took some hammer with out any visual signs of damage due to your design. To be honest iam trying to get it as vibration free as possible while this windy weather is with us and allso this helps me to understand a little bit more about autogyros. Allso while i wait for better weather iam cutting some more blades as spares. One question i would like to ask is if fly the pants of my cranefly iam looking for a more longer build for the coming winter and have been looking at the Firefly, Panther, and i must admit a like the looks of the Dag R2. Which would you think would be the next step up from your fantastic Cranefly design. Glen

Edited By bees on 18/08/2013 16:18:52

[Tom Wright 2]

Hi Glen

Thanks for the kind comments. I think when you have become really confident flying your CF and have mastered avoiding disorientation the next step would be to fit a rudder and get some ROG experience in as this is another part of the learning curve . Another step forward is to increase the AUW by fitting a larger lipo and or some lead ballast ,this will get you accustomed to flying at a higher rotor loading in readiness for heavier models.

The Panther is probably the best documented current design for a winter build ,but do extend the nose and endeavour to build as light as possible.I have been flying the Panther type blades at various model weights and found that they fly nice and easy at up to 4.5 lbs AUW I have also flown them at 5 lbs but as the weight goes up more pilot auto gyro pilot experience may be needed , and every day type bumps tend to be more damaging. When the weight reaches a certain point the shim requirements become much more critical as all the potential lift is needed to carry the extra weight.

Do persevere with eliminating the shake as it can teach you a lot about what effects what and how , this is all part of the fun and keeps the grey matter on form ..

Tom.

[Malcolm - coolwind.co.uk]

Glen,

To add to Tom's list of shake inducers: a bend rotor bolt.

If you've had a couple of heavy arrivals then it can bend. Take it out and roll it on a flat surface to check.

Malcolm

[bees]

Shucks, And i thought i could have progressed onto the big boys. Will get some stick time on the Cranefly and let you know how i get on. Malcolm, on a couple of occasions the cranefly was uncontrolable and both times rolled to the right untill i noticed that the control bar was tilting to the right and when i got home stripped it down to find that the bolt was the culprit being bent. I have since sorted it but thank you for your advice. Glen

[Tom Wright 2]

Malcolm

Thanks for adding the bent bolt to my list , it might be an idea to include a suitable a HT cap head to your range of components .

Glen

As you discovered a bent bolt gives you a different song title ....."Shake rattle and crash" . Easily missed first time around as very often a post heavy arrival check reveals no damage to the airframe and prompts another attempt that results in crash that cannot be explained until the bolt is checked . If you are still keen at this stage then I feel confident you will go on to build and fly one of Rich's designs..

Tom.

[bees]

i allso like the RPG design but i think thati is a long way down the line. Decided last night to build the Cranefly lite which as the rudder to see the difference in flight. I downloaded the PDF not long after Winterton so iam going to see what stock i have later today and hopefully make a start tonight. Glen

[Tom Wright 2]

Posted by bees on 19/08/2013 08:34:56:

i also like the RPG design but i think that is a long way down the line. Decided last night to build the Cranefly lite which as the rudder to see the difference in flight. I downloaded the PDF not long after Winterton so i am going to see what stock i have later today and hopefully make a start tonight. Glen

Great stuff Glen I hope you will find the Lite nice and relaxing to fly, let us know how the build goes, and if we need to add anything to the PDF.

Tom.

[Tom Wright 2]

Hi All

I have been flying my 46" rotor Crane Fly Major a lot recentlly and as it weighs 4.5 lbs I think it would be an Iideal project for the first timers that have got the hang of the smaller Crane Fly models.

The ROG performance is particularly good and as the build is very straight forward it should be a simple introduction to other larger and more complex dual funtion head machines so if anyone is interested I will start a build blog when the nights draw in .

The typical CF lines will be softened up a little to improve the looks , and the blades / flex plate will be availlable from uk suppliers which should cut out the guess work and speed up the build.

Tom.

Mods....the post box top line facilities have gone cannot post photos or spell check ?

[John Dean]

Hi Tom. Following on from my looping problems and a partial cure by setting the angles correctly I have just had a great day's flying having made the following mods, cut the blades to 1.75", piano wire LE as on the SFH and increased the negative incidence - great flier now. Look forward to the bigger version. John

[bees]

Another successfull flight, only one today as the breeze was getting stronger but managed to fly circuits for about 5 mins today and a controlled landing. Tom can you go through the procedure again when turning downwind regarding throttle management because this is the main concern at the moment as well as oreintation of course. Glen

[Tom Wright 2]

Glen

The model does not know it is down wind it’s a matter of pilot’s perception and control reaction as the ground speed increases. Some pilots tend to want to keep the ground speed the same around the circuit which is a recipe for disaster if the wind speed is above a few mph. I am not suggesting you are not familiar with this or are slowing down in response to the increased air speed but it does tend to be a natural reaction when flying a model that needs concentration. You could try increasing power prior to initiating the turn then coordinating up elevator with roll through the turn, this will often require use of opposite roll as the bank angle develops. If you are flying to fast to start with then the models reaction to positive roll inputs will be rapid and will develop into a spiral dive unless corrective action is taken, near flat turns can be achieved, even without rudder, by initiating the turn, pulling through with elevator and applying opposite roll. Hope that helps, if not, pop over for an afternoon and we can have an hour or two at the field.

Tom

Edited By Tom Wright 2 on 21/08/2013 14:54:03

[bees]

Thanks Tom, Will take that into consideration with my next flight. Glen

[Tom Wright 2]

Posted by John Dean on 20/08/2013 16:36:21:

Hi Tom. Following on from my looping problems and a partial cure by setting the angles correctly I have just had a great day's flying having made the following mods, cut the blades to 1.75", piano wire LE as on the SFH and increased the negative incidence - great flier now. Look forward to the bigger version. John

Hi John

I sounds like you may have had a set of 2" chord blades with a high lift section ,if so, this would require a very low forward trim angle on a vertical mast and, a minus value on a raked back mast , the actual values would also depending on the model AUW. Increasing the shim( reduced lift) on the origional blades could well have achieved the desired result . Clearly the standard SFH blades do the job well ,but you may find the model is faster . Keep up the good work as it sounds as if you are passing though the gates into the dark side to recieve your Auto gyro wings.

Tom.

[Tom Wright 2]

Hi All

Except for a day off at the Nats I have been flying the pants off my Crane Fly Major . The model is fitted with a set of 550 mm AJ blades and has been gradually modified to optimise the performance and durability.

The triple fin arrangement has been changed for a single fin , and the 1mm flex plate replaced with 1.6 mm , I also bought a nice pair of air wheels at the nats that now replace the light foam ones originally fitted .The new wheels brought the marginal hang angle into line ,and improved the ground handling .

What has surprised me is the load carriyng capability as it carries a 5A three cell with ease which results in an AUW of a little over 4 lbs. Adding additional ballast to bring the AUW to near 5 lbs still results in easy turns and a generally light feel in flight . The wind today was very light but ROG was short and very predictable which along with the other refinements highlights how easy these things can be to fly when every thing is right.

[Martin McIntosh]

Hi Tom, no maiden yet as the narrow weather window on Sat. was used to examine a `B` cert. candidate, Sun. at the Nats and not enough wind today to blow out a match. It will just have to wait.

Martin

[Tom Wright 2]

Hi All

Having flown the dual axis CF Major extensively I am getting addicted to this larger Auto gyro design .The model is rock steady in less than ideal conditions and yet feels very light and smooth in the air .So far it is proving to be more STOL than the autogyros at our field that are fitted with pre rotators . I have to say that building Auto gyros has never been easier since the vital parts have become available in the UK , I have also found that sticking to spruce and balsa construction with GF as reinforcement results in a very durable airframe and, now with AJ Blades nearly ready to open their on line rotor blade shop there will be no excuse for not having a go .

Tom.

[bees]

Thought i would give the CF a try this afternoon, a little bit gusty really but never the less went ahead and flew the CF. Turns are getting better as i am ready with the elevator realising that it wants a lot more up elev then iam used to giving with fixed wing but this time iam ready to allso counter act the airleron as well. Fisrt flight and landing went well and landed okay but the CF with my to large and springy under carriage always makes the CF topple over on to its side. Next flight made a couple of left hand turns but did not push it as i was turning into the sun but the wind was gusting more this time and i was hovering in the wind most of the time but at some point i had to land and thought about just keeping it into wind and gradually hover it down but turned downwind back to me and then turned back up wind and brought it down allmost at a hover and even managed to keep the CF on its undercarriage making it my best flight and landing so far. Change the colour scheme to yellow and a touch of white with stripes on the blades and this made it easier to see but did not let it get away from me. My best session so far and well pleased.  Glen

 

 

Edited By bees on 02/09/2013 15:11:43

Edited By bees on 02/09/2013 15:12:28

Edited By bees on 02/09/2013 15:13:30

[Tom Wright 2]

Well done Glen thanks for the update. As much airtime as possible is the way to go taking note of any part of the flights that cause you concern .

I have been busy today extending the Crane Fly Major nose , which has also reduced the drag a little ,but the main aim was to see if increasing the hang angle resulted in a better nose down attitude power off.

Tom.