David John Radley Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Please advise, The Plan and Data file state engine required .25 to .32cu and page 67 drawing states for .32 to .40 engines, I have only just started building after a forty year prolonged pause and this will be my second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanN Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 David, hi. Mr Miller always says it like it is and doesn't beat about the bush. The last two columns on P68 state that a .32 is plenty to..... "climb straight up until out of sight........or make three vertical rolls...." etc. That said, there will always be those who fit a bigger motor. More grunt if needed, and you can always throttle back, but also more weight which changes wing loading and impacts on handling If I were going to build this I'd be very happy and confident to follow P.M.'s guidance re a .32. Edited By IanN on 16/11/2012 23:39:58 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Note that Peter is talking about a modern scneurle ported ballraced engine such as a Super Custom ( SC ) These .32 are in a .25 size case so they are lightweight, short and powerful. If you have forty year old engines lying around they may not be as powerful as modern engines. An old .40 might be powerful enough but heavier and longer. Peter also said a .25 might well suit but I reckon he is talikng about modern schneurle ported .25. However if you have an old .25 FSR lying around that should do but the older type of OS Max probably wont. Tell us what engines you have in mind and maybe Peter himself will comment. Note that old engines are collectors items and possibly worth more than modern! See other threads here about OS 25 and also Enya 30SS which might help. Edited By kc on 17/11/2012 14:12:24 Edited By kc on 17/11/2012 14:20:33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 I wondered if my OS 30FS would be adequate (and quieter), I also have an ASP25 and Thunder Tiger 36Pro but I am concerned about noise complaints from one of my neighbours. I normally fly electric from my paddock for that reason. The model is on my build list for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Not sure why they said .40. Definitely .25 to .32. It goes like a rocket on an SC .32. A modern .25 will fly it more than adequately. A .30 FS would fly it but limit aerbatics considerably. You would really have to keep it very light. The ASP 25 would be good. The 36 Pro would be starting to go over the top. As said, the SC .32 takes it up vertically out of sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Looking at the plan it would seem the Front Cockpit Floor is shorter than the fuselage space . I assume it goes from F2 to F5 which is 12.5 inches not the 8.875 inch as drawn. Or is there an open space above the servos? If noise is a problem then this looks a good model to electrify - maybe move F2 forward and create a hatch behind it for Lipo access? This might mean modifying the windscreen part of the canopy but shouldn't alter the appearance too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 The piece of cockpit floor behind F-4 is separate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVID FURNELL Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 I have fallen in love with this bird and my mate and I need to build one each, however, thinking of enlarging it to take a .40 i have going spare. Any idea what w/s or what percentage i could go to for this? Also, if this is done what size prop would be good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I would suggest increading it by 10% Knowing the occasionally poor math of some copyshop operaters, ask for it to be enlarged to 110% That will take it up to 600 square inches. For that you will want a really powerful .40. If using a cooking .40, i.e. a plain bearing .40 possibly take it up to 107% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVID FURNELL Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Thanks Peter, Yeah that is a still a nice reasonable size. We will go for the 107% option I think. At least this way I know I will be bagging power either way. Hope you don't think I wouldn't be satisfied with your build size because its a brill bird, but just want to make good use of this .40 powering something which really caught my eye taking into consideration I have just rebuilt the engine. I saved it from a landfill site laying in a pile of stinking rubbish so it deserves something nice eh! Ha ha. Its runs so good now. Prop size? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 In fact the history of the Dragon Dancer series is full of scale ups. First was Moon Dancer for 1.5 cc diesels. Then it was scales up for .25s. Then came Dragon Dancer for .40s Next was Firedrake for an RCV 58 and finally this one which is a slightly simplified and lightened version of the basic design. I think all these plans are stil available from My Hobbystore. In fact Dragon Dancer 2 was designed for Model Air Plane News but after three years and the fact that they lost the plan and still could not give me a possible publication date I took it back Edited By Peter Miller on 30/11/2012 18:15:06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVID FURNELL Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Hi all. I have just started building this bird. I decided to stick with Peters plans of the .32 and not mess with increasing size and putting my .40 in it. Have ordered a new SC32 for this job. However, I am foam cutting and laminating the wings for ease of build and use different u/c like my MX2. I showed this article to the local hobby shop owner earlier when buying parts and he was very impressed with it and is going to build one himself. In connection to your item Percy, Phil at my local shop came up with an alternative servo to use. Still slim but just a slim standard servo which was very well priced. I will see him Monday and find out what make they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Hi Percy. The Supertec MiniL dissapeared when J. Perkins went over to Hitec. I have not had any trouble with the Hitec ones yet. I did burn out three Mini Ls when I tried to run them on 6 volts. I can't say if RCM&E will produce a set of parts but bearing in mind the obvious popularity of the design I would not be surprised. Hi David. I will be interested to hear how much heavier your model with foam wings turns out. I do like light models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVID FURNELL Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Hi Peter/ Percy, Yes I can understand what you mean regarding foam fill wings but I have used this method before of cutting over with my hot wire bow and with the foam I use (which i get in abundance from work) is very light indeed and in the past has craeted a very strong but light wing. To be honest Peter i went for this option not only because its worked well for me in the past but since showing a few of my friends this design I have been allocated the job of build!!! So for that need and speed of build i am going to try this option first. I will certainly let you know in the future how this goes and if it does not work then i will give myself a slap on the wrist and advise myself to stick with the experts advice eh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I will look forward to hearing how these models progress. Everyone does some mods to plans. I always say that that is the first step to designing a complete model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I think Percy must live up to his name and persevere with the scalpel and saw until a CNC kit becomes available! Note that Peter covers the possibility of using standard servos in the article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron thornhill Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Hi all I have just finished an electric conversion of the Dragon Dancer and it flys very well . Auw is 1.8 kg with a 3s 2200mah battery, a 40amp esc, Emax BL 2815/09 motor with a 11x8" prop and four Tower Pro MG90 servos. Obviously I have had too deviate quite a bit from the plan which is to be expected, mainly for through air flow and also built up tail feathers as opposed to solid balsa. If anyone is interested I will see how you get photos on this page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Hi Ron Would look forward to seeing your Dragon Dancer. It is not hard to put photos on the website and then into posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron thornhill Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Hi Peter, please bear in mind that I am fairly new to modelflying and building and this my first scratch built plane made of left over bits and coverings from CNC kits or crashed planes. Edited By Chris Bott - Moderator on 30/12/2012 18:53:15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron thornhill Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Hi Peter Sorry I could not work that lot out at all, what a mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Hi Ron. Gosh you did do a lot of lightening work there. Very smart model too. Well done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVID FURNELL Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Hi Ron, That looks good and a nice build! Pleased it performs well. I think is a cracking bird. You may have read i am cutting a foam wing for my DD2 and going ok at the moment. Taking my time due to long work hours and a moaning missus but getting there. The power unit you used, would you say it was overpowered? Reason i ask is because i was going to use a .40 and oversize the plan, then bought a new .32 to use but may have a good electric setup coming for free from a mate who has experienced the fate of gravity with a large Cub and given up the hobby and i think it may well do the job! The electrics were not damaged but the airframe was spread over a good distance. I don't mind either way i go because nitro is my way, but i can't look a gift horse in the mouth eh!! Ha ha Not sure on the cub setup stats yet but sure it would do the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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