avtur Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Away from modelling ... I should add that in the course of my work I have visited these locations many times over the years ... to me they are some of the most beautiful places on earth I have seen. .. If I could, I would live and work there in a heartbeat ... also there is something about the mentality of the island folk … they have the most incredible "we can and we will" attitude … they just make things happen if they have to. Seriously there is an "island mentality" which is distinct from how most of us live, and it is a delight to be associated with it. To date my work patch includes Lewis, Orkney and Shetland … the places and people there are so delightful I can't find words to describe them ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Cox Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Posted by Tony Smith 7 on 17/01/2013 15:17:31: Anyway, nobody's chipped in to report other dealers having similar policies, so I guess I just forget Kings Lynn and take my choice from everyone else. Especially if they can't even be bothered to respond to the question. I think you a being a little bit scurroulous and unfair here. BEB has already hit the nail on the head with a clear and informative post, based on a business decision. KLMS do not hate anyone North of the Border, its purely a courier contract matter. Parcelling up and running to the post office on an individual basis is not a viable option either. If KLMS had the time and the manpower maybe it could be done, but that would push costs up even further, and I am sure everyone would like that. Or not. I think can't be asked to answer is possibly a bit strongas well Who did you ask, and when? PM me if you want, its not a problem, but the answer is already here in the thread. Its not the answer you want to hear, I appreciate that, but it is the answer. Regards Charlie C Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 17/01/2013 20:33:14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Opps! Just spotted a naughty word that had crept into the thread - done a bit of editing to remove! Please watch your language folks! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avtur Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I would like to think that it would be possible to live here and still indulge in the areomodelling hobby ...even if at a cost. What bothers me is any supllier who simply says NO .... there are always options and even if it costs people will be prepared to pay .... so to simply put up the shuuters and say NO seems a rather foolhardy position to take/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunnyFlyer Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 BEB, no courier can insist on exclusivity on something they don't provide! "we don't ship to Aberdeen, and we'll stop you using someone who can." I don't think so. If they do, time to get a new supplier. I'm staggered that a shop will be willing to lose a cutomer because thay can't be arsed to pop a package to a post office.Edited By FunnyFlyer on 17/01/2013 20:55:11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avtur Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Posted by FunnyFlyer on 17/01/2013 20:47:43: BEB, no courier can insist on exclusivity on something they don't provide! "we don't ship to Aberdeen, and we'll stop you using someone who can." I don't think so. If they do, time to get a new supplier. I'm staggered that a shop will be willing to lose a cutomer because thay can't be arsed to pop a package to a post office. Edited By FunnyFlyer on 17/01/2013 20:55:11 My thoughts exactly .... being associated with some of the more remote postcades in the UK I am very sensitive to this issue ... they will pay the price ... but to to be excluded is simply wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Randall Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Posted by FunnyFlyer on 17/01/2013 20:47:43: BEB, no courier can insist on exclusivity on something they don't provide! "we don't ship to Aberdeen, and we'll stop you using someone who can." I don't think so. If they do, time to get a new supplier. I'm staggered that a shop will be willing to lose a cutomer because thay can't be arsed to pop a package to a post office. Edited By FunnyFlyer on 17/01/2013 20:55:11 There is no suggestion that the courier is claiming exclusive rights. The problem is that stepping outside of the contract that KLM undoubtably has, puts you back to a one off price from another courier or parcel force. Having recently experienced the shipping cost of a large model from HKs UK base to Nottinghamshire, I would expect the cost to Aberdeen to be £60 or £70. When this represents a third or even a half of the cost of the model, many people will say forget it. As to popping a package to the post office, the buyer will probably want an estimate of the cost first. Shps like KLM could spend a lot of time obtaining costs, only to have the order cancelled due to costs. Which is where we come back to a contract with one courier that fits most of the UK where the cost are already laid down. My LMS owner, before he closed, told me that engines and accessories where not a problem, but without a contract with a courier, the cost of posting a kit was around £50, against perhaps £10 for a company like KLM with a contracted courier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Smith 7 Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share Posted January 18, 2013 Posted by Frank Skilbeck on 17/01/2013 16:49:49: BTW what heli are you planning on getting, I somehow left my LMS last year with a 300x and later a 130x.................. Blade Nano CPX - I've been having a lot of fun with a cheap 4 channel fixed pitch indoor chopper, time for something more challenging. The bigger ones looks great, but I'd worry about breaking them. The "Nano" looks ideal as a first collective pitch model. Tony S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Smith 7 Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share Posted January 18, 2013 Posted by Charlie Cox on 17/01/2013 20:30:44: Posted by Tony Smith 7 on 17/01/2013 15:17:31: Anyway, nobody's chipped in to report other dealers having similar policies, so I guess I just forget Kings Lynn and take my choice from everyone else. Especially if they can't even be bothered to respond to the question. I think you a being a little bit scurroulous and unfair here. BEB has already hit the nail on the head with a clear and informative post, based on a business decision. Unfair? (1) They haven't replied. (2) throughout this thread, although lots of people seem to claims that Kings Lynn's policy is understandable or even inevitable, there's been no mention of other traders acting the same. Just for a laugh I fired up a google shopping search on the product I'm after and checked out the top 10 dealers listed. Only Kings Lynn have this problem. This was the main reason for my post, not to grumble about Kings Lynn so much as to find out whether this issue was widespread. Regarding BEB's explanation I'm afraid it's flawed in a number of ways. The commercial argument doesn't stand up because no other similar trader appears to have to take the same stance. No problem getting my Fun Cub for example which is much bulkier (shame 4Max don't do helis). Judging by their carriage prices, Kings Lynn don't seem to be getting a better deal than the norm. Equally we've had no problems with deliveries in other industries, some of similar size and value like DVD player or telephone answering machine, all the way up to a marine Diesel on a pallet, a load of drainage pipes and two mooring buoys. Some came via the Post Office, but most by carrier. So the argument that it's all the fault of deregulation doesn't hold water either. I suppose it allowed the existence of an odd-ball carrier who won't delivery to most of Scotland, even though they have a main hub there. But it hasn't prevented virtually every other carrier providing sensible coverage. As I mentioned early, I have a policy of never paying extra for delivery unless I can help it, and so far the need has never arisen. Sometimes I've had to contact the supplier to confirm they can deliver on their normal terms, and it is very very rare to find that they can't. Fingers crossed but on those rare occasions it's been easy enough to find an alternative. It looks to be the same in this case .... but let's wait and see whether my new chopper actually makes it here! Tony S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Smith 7 Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share Posted January 18, 2013 PS slight side issue, but many of the times I've had an apparent inability to deliver have been with Ebay, which turned out to be a flaw in Ebay's classification that included everything North of Stonehaven as "Highland and Islands". So that wasn't a carrier issue, just an idiocy on Ebay that meant that even sellers using Royal Mail couldn't accept Aberdeen or Aberdeenshire orders. I think that's been sorted out, or maybe traders have got wise and no longer set an exclusion for Highlands. In a couple of cases sellers altered their listing to allow me to order. So it is well worth asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Balaam Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Kings Lynn models wouldn't deliver to my post code address in Northern Ireland either. In my opinion If they can't provide the same service as most other suppliers in these difficult economic times they don't deserve our custom. Steve B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Tony, you say no one else has this problem - I don't agree. We have had this thread, or posts on this topic, before - more than once. FTB has raised this topic before for one so have others. So, KL aren't the only supplier doing this. I reiterate, I do feel sympathy with your plight - what I don't understand is your anger about it! Steve above says "they don't deserve our custom" - guys aren't you missing the point with comments like that? They have already decided they don't want your custom! By excuding northern Scotland and NI from their delivery map they have written you off. It might make you feel better to rile about "taking your custom elsewhere" - the point is KL have removed your options. You are not in a position to "take your custom elsewhere" - they have excluded you. And at the end of the day - whatever we may think about that from a moral, quality of service or commercial wisdom point of view - that is their right. They don't have to provide a service to anyone in particular if they don't want to! My point is, if I was in your shoes, personally I wouldn't be angry, I'd just shrug my shoulders, say "its their loss" and move on. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytilbroke Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 BEB certainly has made some good points re costs effectiveness. The problem is not so easily explained as in many cases the cost in time over milage is greater within the greater UK population than it is to transport to most Highland areas. I have pointed out that the North of England to areas in the South has greater milage, higher traffic congestion, so takes longer too. The dealer in question obviously does not want our Northerly trade, or Isle of Wight, thier loss. I have no sympathy for them. the media has reported that an enquiry has been set up to look into the rip-off practices of the carriers and thier often false claims of increased cost to VERY large areas of the UK. Aberdeen, Inverness and ares in between as well as elsewhere are NOT poorly served by poor main routes. Some on here could well confirm that the main Eastern Scottish routes are not particularly bad in comparison to many areas, indeed the congestion is often much less than in much of the South of the UK. Ripp-off it is, as confirmed by people I know who work in the delivery chain, common, to the Highlands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I sympathise with those regions where delivery service is not available, from some parcel services or with a supplementary charge. The other side of the coin is that many more receive a service at a lower cost than when a single universal charge is levied. I would have expected that many businesses would investigate a separate charge for the more remote locations in the UK. Again I assume that some carriers are not prepared to deliver to these areas, and hence no agreement is possible. The situation is made no easier in that the PO services are now complicated in that parcels and letters charges are determined by a complex size and weight table. Plus the costs for non contract services are very high. KLM are a business, that many find attractive in both price and service, which I guess they are keen to maintain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunnyFlyer Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 ParcelForce quotes for a 10kg parcel Northampton to Aberdeen: Why on earth can't the shop say. "Unfortunately we can't do our standard delivery charge of £x but I can do it for an extra £x. Are you happy to proceed?" Why on earth are people thinking this approach will jeopardise KLM's standard delivery charges? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Smith 7 Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share Posted January 18, 2013 Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 18/01/2013 10:43:32: I reiterate, I do feel sympathy with your plight - what I don't understand is your anger about it! ... My point is, if I was in your shoes, personally I wouldn't be angry, I'd just shrug my shoulders, say "its their loss" and move on. BEB Anger is putting it a bit strong. Nothing can be done about the business decision of one supplier, and in fact my post originally was to find out how widespread that practice is. What does wind me up is people defending the practice without acknowledging the facts. The fact is that it is a trivial task to choose a carrier with UK wide coverage, as proven by all the successful and cost-effective mail order companies that do exactly that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I can understand Flyingtilbrok's frustration, I also understand why Aberdeen and Inverness can be seen as a foreign country, rather than the UK. I used to travel on a regular basis from the Nort of England to both locations. The distance for me was approx 380 miles. Going to the south it is 250 to Dover. The issue to Inverness is not just distance but a very slow road from Perth. Far worse from a carriers point of view, there is no real business to be done until Inverness is reached. Even then a very small town by North of England standards. Which all boils down to not much to deliver, unless it say once a week. I have more issues with Aberdeen. There is Dundee, inbetween, a good sized city, again with little inbetween Glasgow, Perth, Dundee, to Aberdeen. Although i would have thought enough for a daily service. But i am not the carrier and do not have to make it pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Cox Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Posted by Tony Smith 7 on 18/01/2013 11:47:50: The fact is that it is a trivial task to choose a carrier with UK wide coverage, as proven by all the successful and cost-effective mail order companies that do exactly that. I am afraid you are very wrong! I offered further back in the thread and I'll offer again. PM me and I will explain exactly why KLMS' policy is what it is. Charlie C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpson j Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 HI LEEDS MODEL SHOP FOR BLADE HELICOPTERS JOHN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Smith 7 Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share Posted January 18, 2013 Posted by Charlie Cox on 18/01/2013 16:05:22: Posted by Tony Smith 7 on 18/01/2013 11:47:50: The fact is that it is a trivial task to choose a carrier with UK wide coverage, as proven by all the successful and cost-effective mail order companies that do exactly that. I am afraid you are very wrong! I offered further back in the thread and I'll offer again. PM me and I will explain exactly why KLMS' policy is what it is. Charlie C Maybe I am wrong that it's trivial. If it's not trivial then at least it must be sufficiently easy that virtually every other supplier manages. As to why Kings Lynn doesn't, that doesn't really matter except as a precedent suggesting that delivery to these areas is in some way difficult or costly, which it isn't. For all I know King Lynn might have a non-compete agreement with another supplier serving those areas. I assume there's some confidential reason that you don't want to make public, so I'll take you up on your offer just out of interest. Tony S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Cox Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 PM sent as promised. Charlie C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Ennis Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Don't know if they have already been mentioned (not read the whole thread), but Steve Webbs give great service, and they'll send parcels anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Smith 7 Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 My Blade Nano CPX arrived in snow-bound Aberdeenshire just one working day from my order. Got it from Al's Hobbes, for only 55p more than Kings Lynn. Result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braddock, VC Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Posted by avtur on 17/01/2013 20:29:20: To date my work patch includes Lewis, Orkney and Shetland … the places and people there are so delightful I can't find words to describe them ... Tewksters, young fella, that's the word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Smith 7 Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 Posted by Braddock, VC on 23/01/2013 16:44:30: Posted by avtur on 17/01/2013 20:29:20: To date my work patch includes Lewis, Orkney and Shetland … the places and people there are so delightful I can't find words to describe them ... Tewksters, young fella, that's the word. I think you mean Teuchter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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