WolstonFlyer Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 This build looks great, I am following with interest. I like the history lessons along the way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Etheridge 1 Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 On the way to a National Trust establishment yesterday, a friend and I spotted a sign for World War 2 museum we knew absolutely nothing about. We found the place and despite it being open only at week ends we were allowed in. Needless to say there was some Tiffy artefacts plus a couple of models. Anyway if the flying weather is poor or you need to get away from household chores I would recommend it. The web site is ;www.wingsmuseum.co.uk.-take a look. The museum is located off the A23 Brighton road at Handcross. The actual address is Wings Museum,Unit 1 Bucklands Farm, Brandridge Lane (near Balcombe)West Sussex, RH17 6JT. MJE Edited By Mike Etheridge 1 on 15/08/2013 16:34:47 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexJ Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Hi Mike, That museum is on the way to friends place, not too far from me! Next time I go to see them I will leave early and arrive late! Thanks for the info. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted August 15, 2013 Author Share Posted August 15, 2013 Thanks for that "heads up" Mike - sounds interesting. I'll certainly have a look through their website - but Sussex is a bit far for a passing visit for me! But you never know I might be down there on business! A couple of weeks ago, on my way back from holiday in Scotland, I called in at the Dumfries & Galloway Avaition Museum - which I can heartly recommend. They have a Sabre on display, albeit a crash damaged one! Working on the tailplane still. I've glued on the tips and done some very rough shaping. I mentioned the small error that the final rib will need to be "thickened" by the thickness of the sheeting with some small slivers. Well I've done that - while I remember!,... Now I can't hold off the decision any longer - TN's way (keep the tailplanes separate and insert from the side) or join the tailplane halves into one and then chop the top off the fuselage and fit from above? First lets take a look at the plan,... I've draw a chord line across the elevator in pencil - hopefully you can make it out. I then measured the distance from this line to the fuselage datum line (which is the short/long chain-dashed line just below my pencil line). I measured this separation at either end and the distance was exactly the same - conclusion, the tailplane is at zero incidence. I really didn't fancy my chances of getting the two halves fully glued, in the right place, at the right incidence and dihedral when I couldn't actually see the place they were going into! So, I've decided to do the chop! Here's the rear section that will be "operated upon,... Out with the razor saw,...deep breath and its done! I didn't feel a thing! Next join the two halves of the tailplane together, I used a slow epoxy to do this and did it inverted the way they were built,... Sorry that another one of my "fuzzy pictures" - I really don't know way that happens some times! And here it is placed in position on the "modified" fuselage,.. Its not glued in here. I'll make two half-saddles for the rear of the tailplane to sit on and glue them to the longerons, then skin the fuselage, then glue the tailplane on. Then of course re-instate the top of the rear fuselage. If I had any doubts before I have none now - its going to be so much easier to get a well installed tailplane like this. This was the right thing to do, I'll be able to apply some nice slow epoxy then fettle, prod and view it from every angle until I am happy! Finally, I've been making up and joining laminated squares to cut the fin from. Laminate them, join them, sandwich them between two sheets of clingfilm and stick some heavy books on them to keep them flat while the glue dries!... Three of these are then are laminated with the central one being slightly different profile. It will be clearer when I cut them out next! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted August 16, 2013 Author Share Posted August 16, 2013 Hi Wolston - well I'm pleased you are enjoying the background material - I like to read up on a prototype I'm modelling, I think the "research" is effectively part of the fun. It certainly inspires me in the build. So, this time I thought it might add a bit to the build blog to intersperse some stuff on the history of the Typhoon. Time for installment number 4. We left it with the Typoon just beginning to show that it did indeed have assets that could be useful in combat - even if only its speed and heavy armament. A big part of its change in fortune was due to a significant improvement in serviceability - basic reliability really. As we said this was brought about largely over a period from late 1941 to mid 1942. This, not coincidentally, was a period over which an operational fighter pilot, Roland Beaumont, had been seconded to Hawker to work as a test pilot in a spell on rest from operations. Beaumont was much involved with the "rebirth" of the Typoon and became a something of a champion for it. In particular he was of the view that the RAF was effectively "missing a trick" where the Tiffie was concerned - he saw it not as a fighter/interceptor,....but as a natural fighter/bomber. In July 1942 Beamont returned to operations with a Typhoon squadron, 609, and indeed went on to become it CO. It was during this time that Typhoon had its first experiences dropping bombs. At first the Typhoon was equipped with two 250lb bombs - one under each wing. Early experiences by Beaumont and others with the Typhoon in its new fighter/bomber role were very positive indeed.The Typhoon was fast and very strong. It effectively introduced the RAF to a new type of dive bombing. Whilst Hurribombers, and the even more so the Ju87, speed limited the dive - the Typhoon went all out for it - often reaching speeds of over 500mph in the dive before release. The method was deceptively simple; climb to about 8,000ft, enter a 60 degree dive, when the target disappeared behind the nose count 5 slowly and release! Then pull out like crazy! "Heath Robinson" maybe - but it worked! The Typhoon had a whole new role. Bombing tactical targets in France - railway junctions, bridges, communications centres, command posts etc. Then shoot the place up generally with those 4 20mm cannon. Soon the two 250lb bombs were replaced by two 500lb bombs - and still the Tiffie didn't blink! Eventually tests were carried out with two 1,000lb bombs - this means that the Typhoon is lifting 1 ton of payload on take off - not bad for a fighter! Although the two 1,000lb bomb load was approved it only saw limited use as even the Tiffie found that a handful! 1942 was proving to be a very year for the new aeroplane, people were starting to take it seriously. The number of squadrons equipped was growing and the with it the imact of the Typhoon's efforts were starting to be felt. But the next big development was to prove to be the most significant yet - the Rocket Typhoon! BEB Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 16/08/2013 14:11:47 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Crook Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 BEB, like you I also enjoy reading around a scale project I'm involved with, even if that "project" is a foamie ARTF! I dug out some old "Scale Models" (MAP mag in the 70s) drawings when building mine, which also inspired me. Despite all the reading I did at the time, I'm enjoying your potted history. Early days yet, but when looking at colour schemes, ones with D-Day stripes or the early identification stripes are a good idea. I find they help with visibility on mine against a variety of skies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Crook Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Oh, and if you need some encouragement, here's my finished article. Cannon are silicone sealant nozzles, exhausts are shaped from defunct T-Rex 450 tailboom! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted August 16, 2013 Author Share Posted August 16, 2013 Ooo! That is a very handsome model Trevor! If I can do half as well as that I'll be very happy! Yes, I am planning a circa D-day version with invasion stripes. Of course, as you probably know, the Typhoon acquired stripes rather earlier than most, thanks to some trigger happy "friends" - as I'll explain in the background material a little later in the blog! . OK - I've started on the fuselage sheeting. There are lots of ways of doing this - if you asked 10 modellers how to sheet a model and you'd probably get 10 different answers and what's more all of them would be right! So, here I'll describe the way I do it with no claims that this is the best - only that it works for me! The first step is to select the longeron that is nearest to horizontal and place on it a strip of masking tape running along it that is aligned halfway across the width,.... Here is a close up of the tape running along the longeron half way across which I hope willmake what I mean clearer,.... The purpose of this is to stop glue from going where we don't want it. The first piece of sheeting will start at this longeron and extend downwards - in the image immediately above. But it must only cover half of the longeron - leaving the other half for the neighbouring piece. But, in putting the glue on the longeron, and pressing the edge of the sheet home, we will inevitably get glue all over the place. When we come tomorrow to add the neighbouring piece there will be dried glue on the longeron we want to fix it to. Now this dried glue is big problem for two reasons: It creates lumps, bumps, or at the very least a meniscus, which makes it difficult to get the new neighbouring piece right in butted up against the first. even worse - I'm using aliphatic glue here, it works by soaking into the wood. If its already "been there" it effectively "glue proofs" the surface! This means we can't get a really joint there. So the second piece will not stick down well to this surface. All this means we have to keep the glue off the other half of the longeron - hence the masking tape. We apply this masking tape to the top and bottom longerons of the planed sheeting range with this first panel and on both sides of the fuselage left and right. So we now add the first piece - just glueing to the first longeron - the original horizontal one we choose,.... As soon as we have it in place and well pinned down, we whip the masking tape off and hey presto - no glue on the other half of the longeron!... (Sorry more of my dodgy unfocussed photos . But hopefully you can see what I mean!) We now do the other side the same. I think sheeting should, wherever possible be done in pairs, left and right, as this reduces the chance of twisting the fuselage when we come to bend the sheet. So, here's the fuselage with two sheets set up on their lower longerons,... We need to let this dry now in readiness for bending it tomorrow. You'll remember - I hope - that I glued up laminates for the fin last night. Well they are ready now and cut as two outer pices and one central one,... The idea here is that centre one goes like this between the other two,... That's been all glued up, all three pieces, and weighed down with some heavy books to keep it flat! I'll show that tomorrow. BEB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Bennett Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 nice work young man. now get on with it. he he he Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Prop Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Beb, thanks for the master class on building. I am avidly following your progress and look forward to each episode. I have the Nijhuis plans and intend to build one myself whwn I finish all my other projects (you know how it is.....). I have a particular love of the Tiffie as my dear old dad worked at Napiers during the war, making the Sabre engine. Some of his tales are wonderful. Such as: They tested all of the engines on completion in a heavily armoured test house. Most of the initial production models blew up on testing (probably due to seized sleeve valves) and it was many months before two working examples were finally produced. With much ceremony they were loaded on a lorry and the whole of the staff turned out to cheer the precious cargo on its way down the East Lancs Road. Unfortunately the lorry's brakes failed at the first roundabout and the resulting crashed destroyed the engines...... Did you know that the whole engine was assembled without any gaskets? No wonder it leaked carbon monoxide...... Looking forward to your next eposide! pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Worley - 4-Max Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Hi BEB,You may want to re-visit your horizontal stabiliser - Sorry! Tony made a small error in his drawings and drew the elevators wrong. have a look at Trevor Crooks photos, his are correct, you'll see what I mean. Tony blew up this drawing for me and now myself and Colin Low are building 2 off 100" versions, both for electric power. We hope to get them built for around 25lbs and have around 3500W on 12S. So far we have built the tail feathers and have made a plug and cowls, next job is the fuselarge. The plug and cowls must have taken us over 80 hours of work so far. You are doing a very nice job here, keep up the good work. Edited By George Worley - 4-Max on 17/08/2013 17:49:12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Worley - 4-Max Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Not quite sure what happened to the picture LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 Hi Peter, smashing story that about the Sabres! By coincidence - or perhaps not if you think about it! - my father also worked for Napiers. Sadly not on the Sabre, he was there in the mid fifties to sixties working on the Deltic diesel engine. What I mean by "if you think about it" is that I suppose its no big surprise that the sons of Napier engineers would be involved in a technological and constructive hobby such as this. George - wow, those two will be beasts and no mistake! Nice job on the plug for the cowl. Would be nice to see them once finished. I was aware of the elevator error - its also pointed out on the only other full build blog I've seen on RCGroups. It wouldn't be a big mod, just cut of the overhangs and build some tips onto the existing elevator. But to be honest I didn't rush into do it. I like my scale models to look right in the air and tend not to get too worried about absolute accuracy! So I put it on ice as it were. But now you raised it, I'll think about it some more and if it annoys me enough - which it probably will - I'll alter it. Today I've been working on the fuselage sheeting. Starting with a side sheets I glued the bottom of the horizontal longeron; first I wet the outside surface of the sheet, this causes the wood to expand on that side and forces a curve into the wood that will make it easier to fix down. This water induced curve is shown in the photo below,... This is then fixed in place and then the other side the same,... These were quite difficult. Firstly 3mm sheet is quite beefy for sheeting a model this size, but the real problem was that such a large piece leaves us coping with a slight compound curve - ie it curves in two directions at right angles to each other - i.e. there is the obvious curve around the fuselage but also the slight curve along the fuselage. The fitting involved a certain amount of creaking and groaning - and not just from me! And so we proceed,... That central piece is just about to be fitted. At present I've done pretty well all the upper surface - I'm hoping to do the lower fuselage tomorrow. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Bennett Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 nice job. very nice job keep going. will it be ready for the nats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 Haha!!!! Somehow I think not Tony! I'm not nearly as fast as you. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concorde Speedbird Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Looks nice, I have to do the sheeting soon on my Spitfire, not as much as yourself though! I'm glad to hear you are doing invasion stripes, I may on my Spitfire too. Keep up the good work and you'll be on the wing soon. Mechanical, Pneumatic or electric retracts? My electric ones are superb and very light, I've yet to 'treat' them to any of my landings though obviously! CS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Prop Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Hi Beb. Pity that they could not have squeezed a Deltic engine in a Tiffie! It might have been a bit nose heavy though..... i don't want to hijack your thread, but here's one last storey about the Sabre engine: Napiers set up a shadow factory in Liverpool to make the beast. It had a reinforced concrete bomb proof roof and was divided into bays by blast walls. I believe it may still be there on the old East Lancs Road but is now a trading estate. The trams came out of Liverpool and ran down into the factory, there were that many workers to transport. Anyway, Napiers had terrible problems machining the aluminium castings for the cylinder blocks. Not really their fault as the machines that they were using were American, sent over under the Lend Lease arrangements. The Americans did not send new lathes and milling machines, but cleared out their factories of all the old models. The workers at Napiers could not achieve the fine tolerances required using these worn out machines and most of the cylinder blocks were rejected in the first few months of production.. At one point the perimeter walls of the machine shops were lined with rejected castings, stacked up 4 or 5 high. Lord Beaverbrook (the then Minister of Supply) was sent up to the factory to find out what was going wrong. Heads rolled and a special salvage department was set up to reclaim as many of the castings as possible. My father worked in that department and he says it was the best time of his life! I promise not to post any more stories on what is really a side issue.... Good luck with the build. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I for one enjoy your stories Pete, and think they enhance BEB pocket history. I vote for more stories Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 I totally agree Danny! If you know anymore background on the Sabre Peter please do share it here. I included the potted history stuff because I felt it would add to the atmoshere of the build and may be of interest to some - your accounts add very much to that. My father worked in the East Lancs road plant you refer to, which was the "home of the Deltic". Interestingly - now this is a side line! - the opposed piston idea used in the Deltic was apparently originally a Jumo idea. They were trying to make an aero diesel engine for Junkers. The pistons were not in a triangular arrangement - as in the Deltic - but were a flat pair, so sort of one arm of a Deltic's triangle. This meant that they had two crankshafts instead of the Deltic's three, but the nucleus of the idea was there. The Sabre of course was not an opposed piston engine, but I think there are a number of conceptual similarities between the Sabre and Deltic. Both have multiple crankshafts and need a "phasing case" to combine the drive power from the engine into a single output. And, in a way, you could think of the Sabre as an opposed piston engine turned inside out! The Sabre really was a monster of an engine. The Prototype delivered 2,500hp - at a time when the Merlin was producing 1,000hp. And it wasn't done by mere bulk either, the Sabre was 36 litres (so approximately 70hp/litre) compared to the Merlin at 27 litres (only around 37hp/litre). The troublesome sleeve valves were a major factor in the Sabre's power - allowing the engine to "breathe" much more efficiently - which they did as long as they were still working! Following development the Sabre's power increased even more - with the final version, the E122 - producing an incredible 3.500hp - that's over 97hp/litre - in 1946! Those with a more general interest in aviation might be interested to learn that the design of the Sabre was done by Frank Halford - who of course designed the Gypsy and Gypsy Major engines that powered the Moth and assocated types. He also did the preliminary design of the jet engine that eventually became the DeHavilland Goblin that powered the Vampire and the Meteor. Its a small world! BEB Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 18/08/2013 14:15:24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 At the moment I'm thinking electric retracts CSB - the biggest problem I have here is fitting the wheels into the wing - there isn't much space! Anyway I'm looking at the E-Flite 90 size set and will be doing some detailled measuring up and calculations soon! I really need to resolve this before I can build the wing centre section. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djay Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I fitted the e-flite 120 size electric retracts, with dubro 3.5 inch lightweight non treaded wheels. The wheels are lost in the wheel bay as it is cavernous, very deep and stacks of room for any type of retracts. you will need to fit the retracts right at the beginning of the centre section build to ensure you get the mounting beams corect for the u/c operation and the wheels clear all the structure and point straight ahead when extended. the legs sit well inside the wing structure so when you fit the leg covers you will have to glue packers to the legs. Darryl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 That's good to know - that you found there was plenty of space with the E-Flite retracts. I've seen more than one where folks have had to take more out of the wing rib than looks healthy! But they were using either mechanical or pneumatic retracts maybe that was the problem? Interesting you went for the 120 ones - a big of added "beef" just to be sure? BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Prop Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Bed and Danny, thanks for the comments regarding the Sabre engine stories. Here is another short one that you might enjoy: The work that the Napiers salvage department did really was 'engineering thinking on your feet' and they produced many jigs and fixtures to help in reclaiming the rejected engine blocks. Problems to be solved included out of true top faces, tapered bores and bolt holes that did not line up. In the end they managed to reclaim a substantial number of blocks which were put back onto the production line, however sometimes the 'fixes' were a bit unorthodox. Anyway, the Powers That Be had decreed that famous air aces should visit the aircraft shadow factories and give pep talks to the workers. (I believe that Alex Henshaw did quite a number of these). As part of the show, the airman would tour the factory talking to the workers and during such a visit one approached my father and asked him what he was doing. At the time dad was engaged in a particularly dodgy piece of work and there were lumps of metal hanging out of the poor engine block that he was working on. When dad explained that he was reclaiming a reject cylinder block so that it could be used in an aircraft, the guy blanched and said. 'I wish you had not told me that; I fly these things every day!' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djay Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 I did have to trim the ribs right down but this does not affect the structural integrity of the wing at all. as the spars and skins are the load bearers. That is why you fit the gear whilst the center section is just ribs and spars, no skins fitted so you can fettle easily, or only one skin fitted, then you know they will fit I went for the 120 size for two reasons, 1. that is all that is available here in Dubai. 2. they are better quality and more substantial mounts than the smaller versions. even though this plane lands slowly and smoothly as anything, it helps to have good quality mounts that will not break. Darryl Edited By Djay on 19/08/2013 14:02:11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 Darryl can you get the doors to shut flush with the wing skin with them - no tilt on the doors? BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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