Phil's Barnstormer

[Phil Winks]

Starting this as early as possible to help others trying to decide on a powertrain for this

Ok here goes the Barnstormer 63 plan is on its way from DB Models and once thats here I'll be able to confirm my choice of powertrain, but working from the setup recommended on the 4-max site I'm planning on using the following

Plan pack obviously

Motor

Esc.

Battery

Servo's these for the main and ailerons if the wings are thick enough otherwise they will have slim wing servos.

and as a final touch one of these lovely props

Well its start though progress will as last year be slow to start with though I should start a few months earlier this year, no workshop to build lol.

Phil

[Tony Bennett]

i shall be watching.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[WolstonFlyer]

So Phil is "first off the bat"

Subscribed!  This is going to be interesting

 

Edited By WolstonFlyer on 14/10/2013 20:24:51

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Well done Phil! Congrats on being the first out of the blocks!

BEB

[Phil Winks]

Thanks lads,

Percy I used to be (Last time around) the same with west wings models converting pretty much all their prop driven models to brushless in fact the revised fournier plan has a fair bit of input from me regarding the powertrain also RC'd their largest rubber driven spitfire that was fun!! if a little dangerous not a slow model by any stretch

and looking at the models in the DB range I can see me building more than just this one nice traditional building

Phil

[Phil Winks]

Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 14/10/2013 20:32:52:

Well done Phil! Congrats on being the first out of the blocks!

BEB

1st out of the blocks maybe Dave but it remains to be seen if I get to the finish post 1st, not that its a race but I do want to keep ahead of the followers to hopefully sort issues before the less experienced encounter them

Phil

[kevin b]

Although I'm building a smaller version I'm sure the techniques will be useful. I will need all the help I can get ! It's going to have to be very light.

kevinb.

[Tony Bennett]

just waiting for the plans for my build.

so if you start before me, i will be taking notes

[Phil Winks]

Which wing span are you building Kevin ?

this model at any size seems to have a pretty large wing area so I wouldn't fret to much about weight saving just the usual sensible measures ie light at the tail stronger in the spar , U/C and motor mounting areas to be fair most of this thinking will be hopefully in the plan notes if not we will sort it between us

Phil

[kevin b]

Thanks Phil.                Wingspan a fraction over 36ins in old money.

I've got the plan sorted and agree that the wing load shouldn't be too great. The front end will have some slight changes as I am hoping to fit a 400 brushed motor. At the tail end I have some ideas for keeping weight down and will be doing away with the tailwheel completely. I might incorporate some "lightening" holes in the U/C. Further down the thought trail I might consider tissue covering, though I already have some spare Solar Film and the intention is to keep expenditure to a minimum (part of the build challenge).

This is going to be fun !

kevinb.

Edited By kevin b on 14/10/2013 22:38:04

[Mike Hardy]

Hi Phil, Just ordered the 63" barnstormer plan pack - 2 weeks delivery, Can anybody on here come up with a wood pack or list for the 63" Barnstormer (please).

Hope to start when the Tucano is finished.

Early days Phil I know!! but have you come up with any mods yet - Motor mounting etc.

Mike.

[Devcon1]

Hi All,

I shall also be building a barnstormer version, I've seen mention of a 50ish inch version but can't seem to find anything.

Does anybody know of a source.

Regards

John

[kc]

MyHobbyStores list RC1039 Barnstormer amongst the X List plans and it might be the 52. But it costs an exorbitant 22.50 pounds! While DB charge 10 pounds for the 63.....

RC1118 is the 72 from MyHobbyStores.

Do you really need a 710 watt motor ( 4 Max suggest this) for a Barnstormer 63? I would have expected 350 to 500 watt for this style of plane. Surely anyone could build this to weigh 4 to 5 pounds, or am I wrong?

[kevin b]

Posted by savedbytheground on 15/10/2013 11:23:25:

Hi All,

I shall also be building a barnstormer version, I've seen mention of a 50ish inch version but can't seem to find anything.

Does anybody know of a source.

Regards

John

PM sent.

kevinb

[Phil Winks]

Hi All regarding the required power I suspect at 5'3" wingspan this is very likely to be around the 6lb mark maybe a touch more just look at the E-Pioneer not a heavily built model and 10" shorter on W/S and it tips the scales at 5lb+

Regarding my plan for mods I feel I must look at making the wing plug in 2 part as 63" will not go in either my Peugeot partner van or my 5' trailer without being put in at an angle and that just takes up so much room and leaves it vulnerable too

Kevinb I think with a brushed 400 up front you'll have little to worry about regarding achieving a forward cog so don't fret to much about lightening the tail. I also think you'll struggle to get better than just adequate power esp if you use NiMh batteries too I do understand building on a budget, been there done that many times however with the cost of a good 350W brushless motor being around the £15 mark I do feel brushed motors should be kept for model boats to prevent a tears at bedtime syndrome developing prematurely. Just my opinion and no one will applaud more than me if you get it flying well on a brushed motor.

Phil

[Greybeard]

Posted by kc on 15/10/2013 12:16:06:
MyHobbyStores list RC1039 Barnstormer amongst the X List plans and it might be the 52. But it costs an exorbitant 22.50 pounds! While DB charge 10 pounds for the 63.....

RC1118 is the 72 from MyHobbyStores.

Do you really need a 710 watt motor ( 4 Max suggest this) for a Barnstormer 63? I would have expected 350 to 500 watt for this style of plane. Surely anyone could build this to weigh 4 to 5 pounds, or am I wrong?

You are not wrong but I think D.B. designed his models for i.c. power whereas those being electric powered don't need to be quite so beefy. So I suspect a 63" model need weigh no more than 4/5 lbs as you suggest, nearer to 4 than 5 in fact.

[Phil Winks]

We shall see on this one Greybeard I'd be surprised to see a traditionally constructed model of this size come in quite that light

On the subject of the need for being beefier for IC models.

I know that this isn't a highly aerobatic plane but even mild aero's can produce quite sizable gyroscopic forces from the prop which act on the motor mount making the strength requirements for that mount pretty critical, and quite obviously the bigger the prop the larger these forces are, and the greater the leverage exerted through the mount, so these forces do not rise proportionally with the size of prop. And these forces are pretty much the same whether it is an IC or electric powerplant

Phil

[Greybeard]

Posted by Phil Winks on 15/10/2013 20:01:41:

We shall see on this one Greybeard I'd be surprised to see a traditionally constructed model of this size come in quite that light

On the subject of the need for being beefier for IC models.

I know that this isn't a highly aerobatic plane but even mild aero's can produce quite sizable gyroscopic forces from the prop which act on the motor mount making the strength requirements for that mount pretty critical, and quite obviously the bigger the prop the larger these forces are, and the greater the leverage exerted through the mount, so these forces do not rise proportionally with the size of prop. And these forces are pretty much the same whether it is an IC or electric powerplant

Phil

Check out the Mick Reeves Gangster 63 for comparisons; 4lb ready to take-off. Goes very well on electric too.

[Phil Winks]

Hi Greybeard I do take your point here!

However is that gangster lite a traditional stick and tissue/solatex build ? Or, has it very thin balsa sheeting over formers, covered in solafilm or similar. This is, in my experience, a lighter way to build but would not be following, in my opinion, the original design of the barnstormer, My intention is to make the Barnstormer look indiscernible in flight from the original, colour scheme excepted, and even that will hopefully have a real retro feel to it.

As for going well on electric I don't doubt it mate, in fact I've yet to find a model up to, and even beyond, this size that can't be made too. Brushless and lipo's are possibly an aero modellers dream come true.

 

Phil

Edit

Just got a little further down that page the Gangster 63 lite is in fact sheet on former with huge lightnening holes cut along the whole of the fuse looks engineered close to minimum limits to me. Not a bad thing but not good in a hard (and we all do them occaisionally) arrival

Edited By Phil Winks on 15/10/2013 20:40:38

[AlexJ]

I did a search on the open zone for the Barnstormer the results showed a 50inch ish design that was completely different. Is there a 52 inch version, I can't find any other original drawings of a barnstormer of this size?

Alex

[David Tweddle]

For what its worth Phil, I did have a s/h 72" one and it weighed a ton power was a 60 ?.

Sorry I cant be more precise that that one ton = well over 6lb covering I think nylon/dope

U/C wire cabanes missing?

David

[Phil Winks]

Thanks David to be fair I'm expecting approx 5+ lbs and if it comes out lighter then thats a bonus, the power train is chosen to allow up to 8lbs though I don't expect to need that much. I am working on worst case here as info on its designed flying weight and for that matter the wing chord is pretty sketchy at best and non existent mostly

Phil

[Greybeard]

Posted by Phil Winks on 15/10/2013 21:11:20:

Thanks David to be fair I'm expecting approx 5+ lbs and if it comes out lighter then thats a bonus, the power train is chosen to allow up to 8lbs though I don't expect to need that much. I am working on worst case here as info on its designed flying weight and for that matter the wing chord is pretty sketchy at best and non existent mostly

Phil

It’s a sensible approach after all your radio will have a throttle so you don’t have to use full power all the time.

As an aside do all us Barnstormers post in this thread or are we expected to start our own?

[Greybeard]

Posted by Phil Winks on 15/10/2013 20:32:48:

Hi Greybeard I do take your point here!

However is that gangster lite a traditional stick and tissue/solatex build ? Or, has it very thin balsa sheeting over formers, covered in solafilm or similar. This is, in my experience, a lighter way to build but would not be following, in my opinion, the original design of the barnstormer, My intention is to make the Barnstormer look indiscernible in flight from the original, colour scheme excepted, and even that will hopefully have a real retro feel to it.

As for going well on electric I don't doubt it mate, in fact I've yet to find a model up to, and even beyond, this size that can't be made too. Brushless and lipo's are possibly an aero modellers dream come true.

Phil

Edit

Just got a little further down that page the Gangster 63 lite is in fact sheet on former with huge lightnening holes cut along the whole of the fuse looks engineered close to minimum limits to me. Not a bad thing but not good in a hard (and we all do them occaisionally) arrival

Edited By Phil Winks on 15/10/2013 20:40:38

It’s a bit off topic but deserves a reply. The Gangster is a very durable and bounce proof design but like most doesn’t appreciate being flown through trees (don’t ask) my present version is powered by a 52 four stroke and has proved to be equally durable since I have so far avoided the aforementioned shrubbery.

Light models crash gently.