Tim Mackey Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Our bungalow loft has loose "blown wool" type loft insulation, which is, frankly pathetic. Installed I guess when built over 20 years ago, its thin, and patchy, and we are sure we could benefit from installing newer, "on the roll" style stuff, over the top of the stuff thats there I calculate (roughly ) an area of approx 150 Sqm. Any experts out there ( I'm sure there are ) who could advise on... 1) Best type and best place to get it at lowest cost 2) Installation tips. 3) General advice. I have tried online to see if we may be eligible for grants etc, but as always, it seems that one needs to be on some sort of benefit before you can get help, so it looks like I shall have to fund it all myself from my now rather meagre private pension. Edited By Tim Mackey on 26/10/2013 18:58:29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Aren't pensioners eligible for help with insulation costs Tim...... The only tip I could offer is to wear gloves & keep all skin covered when installing.......the bloomin' stuff gets everywhere & your skin will be itchy & red for DAYS afterwards if you let the insulation material get on it.... Oh & wear a mask too.... Good luck..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 hello old timbo...we pensioners have to look out for each other ...check out with your energy supplier..some have incentives for their customers .....also(and i'm not been cheeky) get in touch with age concern ...they may be able to guide you along to the route-where you might get some info........ ken Anderson....ne...1- look after the old campaigner's dept. forgot to mention......I bumped in steve H at greenacre's .....that was some mask he was wearing there..... Edited By ken anderson. on 26/10/2013 19:09:21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben goodfellow 1 Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 get it tested for asbestos befor you do anything ,its a LOT MORE COMMON than you might think , i had a sample of thye loose blown stuff out my loft tested 2 weeks ago and it cost 24 pound . it was negative , but if you research the internet for it you cant tell the difference at all it all looks very similar, unless its vermiculite which 99% of the time does have asbestos in it . im doing mine with cellotex / kingspan 70mm thick 25 pound a 2440 x 1220 sheet and far better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanN Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Tim, you don't want to hear this but you've rather missed the boat. Govt funding on this ended last year. The DIY shed chain I work for used to regularly knock this out on promo at £2 or £3 per roll, and also offered a full all installed service, including materials for £100. Now the retail is more like £20/£30 per roll Might be worth a call to your local authority rather than just relying on online info - when govt funding ended I did hear something about assistance still being available under certain circumstances. However, I can't recall the detail and don't want to get your hopes up. I'll check with our team on Mon and let you know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 If the house is a 1960's built house it might have asbestos in the roof space. If your house was built, as you say, in the 1990's then asbestos won't be a problem. As Ian says you've missed the boat with Gov funding but there are some good deals to be had. Wickes is always good, I find, for roof insulation as well as Homebase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben goodfellow 1 Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 any building before 2000 can and very probaly will contain asbestos somewhere . i spent a whole weekend worried about this and researching th net . rock / mineral wool is banned in some states in the us and when i was talking to the man where i got it tested (vega testing ) he said rock wool is going to be the new asbestos as is mdf when it cut/dust . loose blown asbestos is the most dangerous kind i would not take any chances for a few quid to get it tested Edited By ben goodfellow 1 on 26/10/2013 19:53:22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename-John Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 theres 15 % off everything in homebase this weekend ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mackey Posted October 26, 2013 Author Share Posted October 26, 2013 Thanks for the replies so far chaps. Bad news to hear the subsidy has ended!! Steve, government dont consider me a pensioner until I reach 65, and as I am not on any other benefits, my private pension, as small as it is, excludes me. Unfair really I know all about how bad the stuff is - I've spent many hours in the loft over the last ten years, installing lights, cabling, networks etc. Ive already asked online about locval govt subsidies, and await their response, but not hopeful. I'll just have to get shopping around then. Ian N - chers mate, would appreciate that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFlyingCrust Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Hi Tim. Check out the Green Deal. Run by the government. No up-front cost for ANY energy saving measure. You pay for it in your reduced energy bill. I think they calculate the saving and charge the "loan" against your bill. Get the walls filled at the same time. I'd use coated styrofoam beads for that. Less issues than with blown fibre (rockwool). Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stevens 1 Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Hi Tim, I don't think the subsidy has ended - I had free cavity wall insulation done on Thursday (24th Oct) I am not on any sort of benefits and am retired like yourself. I was told it was free from the start but when I saw the leaflet, it mentioned about you having to be on benefits etc. When I queried this with the agent, he advised me not to worry about that list as the Govt are changing the criteria all the time, the qualifier for me was living in a coastal property. I have a beach 1 mile either side of me. This scheme also covers free loft insulation and possibly free boilers too. So it will be worth keeping an eye out in case any such work is being done in your area. If you do decide to go the DIY route. The rolls of insulation are not expensive and are very easy to put down. I did my Mum's loft for her. I would certainly agree on wearing gloves when handling it though, as it will make your hands itch for days and glass splinters are a pain to get out. This was the company that provided my insulation - might be worth giving them a call: http://www.nesuk.com/energy-efficiency-improvements.aspx Mark Edited By Mark Stevens 1 on 26/10/2013 23:13:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie sawyer Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Hi Tim, I am in the trade and have my own Plumbing business up North in Scotland. I have just insulated my extension that I am building. The normal loft insulation ...Eg: glasswool ( Rockwool) is about the cheapest and easiest to fit. In a roll you can get anything from 50mm thick density up to a few hundred mm. I used the 150mm thick rolls and there about £17 + vat a roll. You will get about 7 sq meters per roll. So if as you say your loft is 150 sq meters then your looking at about £357 + vat. That will give you a 150mm thick covering but if you really want it done 100% perfect and the way the experts do it you would need to cut the rolls and install the 150mm thick rolls in between the joists which would cost the above figure and then unroll full rolls and lay them at 90 deg to the joists. This would give you a 300mm thick layer but double your cost of £357 + vat. Not much change from a £1000 I'm afraid. The polystyrene balls were mentioned and from what I have personally seen in houses they like to move lots and if they find any small hole like for example where electrical cables go down through the ceiling or pipes they like to go where they shouldn't be. I wouldn't go near them period ! The likely hood of you having asbestos is very low since your house is only 20 years old. The fluffy stuff that you mentioned I have seen before and if you want to be safe have it tested but I highly doubt it will come back positive. The foam insulation sheets that some one mentioned has the highest U-Values that you can achieve such as Kingspan but it is very costly at about £25 a sheet giving you a sq meter coverage of 2.88 sq meters. It is very labor intensive to install to. Hope some of this helps with your dilema. Insulating your house would most definatley help with your heating bills. Also with regards to your heating if you have a wet central heating system with radiators having a thermostat valve fitted on each individual radiator will help cut your running cost's down. Regards Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie sawyer Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Additionally to the polystyrene balls it is actually against the law in a new dwelling to install electrical cables up against or in polystyrene sheet. It can result in a house fire. The polystyrine leaches the plasticiser out of the PVC, so that it becomes stiff and brittle. Sometimes it looks like the PVC has melted and run a little. Regards Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Powell Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 If you can get any assistance from a contractor/government, make sure that your loft is emptied of all your old insulation . for some reason they react better if it is pointed out to them that it is the property of a pensioner who is so poor that they cannot afford any insulation whatsoever . also if you fit thermostatic valves to a central heating system leave at least one radistor in the system (possibly the bathroom) without any form of thermostatic valve regards eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masher Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 You can save on Kingspan by using this supplier: Insulation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Posted by ben goodfellow 1 on 26/10/2013 19:51:26: any building before 2000 can and very probaly will contain asbestos somewhere . i spent a whole weekend worried about this and researching th net . rock / mineral wool is banned in some states in the us and when i was talking to the man where i got it tested (vega testing ) he said rock wool is going to be the new asbestos as is mdf when it cut/dust . loose blown asbestos is the most dangerous kind i would not take any chances for a few quid to get it tested Edited By ben goodfellow 1 on 26/10/2013 19:53:22 Sorry Ben but I think you have scared yourself to death there. You said that houses WILL contain asbestos if pre 2000. Sorry but that is not the case whatsoever. There may be some asbestos in the house but that is not necessarily the case as asbestos useage in most home build products was banned from 1993. I think your new found friend at the asbestos testing place simply tasted your fear and fed you more. I cannot find any evidence of rockwool being banned in the US. Having said that the Americans will ban anything and is not related to anything that indicates common sense; what you can freely buy in one state is banned in another. There has been many studies on rockwool, none have indicated any link to health issues. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19730396 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2711883/ MDF reads as safe too http://www.prlog.org/10255835-mdf-is-safe-right-the-truths-and-myths-about-mdf.html http://www.hse.gov.uk/woodworking/faq-mdf.htm http://occmed.oxfordjournals.org/content/61/5/357.full There are few journals I can post for MDF, I can read them but others need to subscribe but there appears to be no link to any health risks. Edited By John F on 27/10/2013 07:44:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly P Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Tim, pm inbound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben goodfellow 1 Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 john f . i really hope you right , but you cant study something that takes decades to present itself ,asbestos was used for over a hundred years . before being stopped , mdf is relatively new ... as is rock/mineral . i was .looking at a site (which im trying to find again) and couldnt beleive how much the stuff was used ,, on the king span issue it may take a little cutting to size to fit but i think when you cosider what we do to build an airframe its not exactly taxing , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Scientific techniques have changed dramatically and our analysing abilities have improved much over the random tests available to us in victoriana. We know what kind of markers to look for and what kind of effects are going to happen based upon minute changes. Things such as qualitative and quantitative medical surveys over decades give us more reliable evidence and ability to study. It's much, much more accurate than someone simply saying "Margerine is one molecule away from plastic"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Another thing to watch out for Tim is condensation in your loft. When you've insulated it the loft space will be colder than before & this can give rise to condensation forming on the timbers & internal surfaces.....make sure your loft is well ventilated to allow air to circulate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levanter Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Another tip if you get the stuff on your skin wash first in the coldest basin / shower you can bear. Hot water opens your pores and in the fibres go to do their merry itching for days. Cold water closes the pores and most of the fibres will simply rinse off. This works as well for anyone working with glass fibre. I got this from a very old hand when I worked as patternmaker in GRP moulding shop and I have retained my sanity - I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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