Pete B Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 I noticed this report on the Beeb website today about a large fire in a Norwegian village. It is reported that firefighting helos are holding off getting on with their job because 'media drones' are in the airspace. I see the BBC, for one, are starting to use multicopters in their productions, including news reporting. Given that these users are unlikely to be in the 'ATC' comms loop, where they are subject to some control, I wonder if this is going to happen elsewhere at newsworthy events? Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Privett Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 You might hope that the operators of the media drones would act in a responsible way where potential conflict with full-size traffic, and particularly emergency services aircraft, is concerned. On the other hand this is "the media" (get the dramatic front-page picture regardless of what you have to do to get it) that we're talking about... I note though that the report talks about "suspected media drones taking pictures in the area" and "The police could not say how many drones were operating in the area." Though clearly they think there are drones which could be a hazard. There's possibly a parallel with something else I've noticed. In (mainly American) car-chase videos, there often seem to be more TV and news-reporting helicopters than police helicopters following the action and generally trying to keep out of each others' way. It sometimes looks just as manic in the air as on the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 In times gone by, when I did the aerial photography for a major incident, it wasn't unusual to have to orbit elsewhere from time to time to allow a Press helo to get in and get some shots - all very civilised and by agreement through ATC. I'm sure the likes of the BBC will be conscious of the safety issues - presumably awareness of confliction is part of the commercial licence process? - but it's the enthusiast hoping for a Youtube scoop who may just pop up unannounced.... Yes, some of those vids looking down on the police helo, looking down on the car chase, raise the hairs on the back of the neck...... Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowerman Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Now the 'media' are using drones more I can imagine lots of 'celebritys' applying for 12-bore permits. And of course the US police already have them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 I would be extremely surprised if the BBC were not fully aware of their responsibilities with respect to the operation of drones to take aerial images. In the case of the Norwegian story, we do not commonly have fire fighting helicopters, so is not relevant here. Perhaps a wider question would wide spread use of the devises by the media be a safety issue? In many respects you would not expect so. Mainly as most of there uses would be to take aerial shots of a fixed feature, it all should be far easier to access the risks, how to deal with the unexpected. Possibly more of a hazard could be the use by our emergency services. As an example, fire services would almost certainly want to use such devices in dynamic circumstances, where circumstances could change rapidly, with new unexpected hazards occurring without warning, yet the issue remaining fixed. At present I would be open minded, and assume the benefit from deployment would outway the risk. The police is rather different, often they are dealing with highly dynamic circumstances, where emotion could be high. Personally I would prefer a helicopter with highly trained, dispassionate civilians operating them. The trouble is that from television, is that they do not have enough helicopters. So here it could be a case of needs must. At present there does not seem a real issue, even the Norwegian report is based on allegations. Yet in a remote situation, I would be surprised if they did not know who the operator is, as there would not be hundreds of media persons, unless the emergency services react far slower than the media. I would expect all operators of such devices to do as we do. That is, if we see a full sized aircraft, we land or at least get out of the way, although I would expect a landing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Crosby Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 I think you are a bit naive. I am now retired from a long career including the last 16 years as a SAR captain. If you imagine that the media will act responsibly when there is any kind of story in the offing then you are misguided. I have a few stories of where press intrusion on the ground (TV & newspaper) hampered and distracted the rescue/operation in progress. One example was that they kept asking that the rescue was sped up so that they could make a news hour deadline! Erfolg, no, they don't easily get out of the way without being forcefully told by high authority. Even then they inch back for a better view. It is all very well chasing up the operator afterwards but the damage is done then and the legal disputes afterwards become worth it for the media as they "have their story". If you monitor the news channels and see what they make their helicopter crews do you will see that they are intrusive. The multicopter platform is a gift to them. Trust me. They will get in the way and they will film you, me, everything with and without permission. Maybe I should arm my fast cutlass with air drop-able netting or string in case they decide to film my farm or campsite! I'm not sure that the ANO has caught up with this new activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Jones 7 Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Fairly simple response for if this were to happen in the UK. Take away the operators license. Any commercial work in the UK needs this or the CAA can hit you hard. Don't mess about though, if it's a BBC operator at fault remove the BBCs license to use them for a set period. Sure they could use independant operators but would they risk their lively hood? Only allow them to operate again once a complete check of all equipment and operators has been carried out, which they have to pay for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 +1 to all that, Dane. I had many similar experience at ground level over the years and put nothing past journos in their desire to get the story.... Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avtur Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Posted by Dane Crosby on 19/01/2014 17:25:51: If you imagine that the media will act responsibly when there is any kind of story in the offing then you are misguided. I have to agree, take any TV news channel, any day, any bulletin; what we see on a daily basis is the media scrum where photographers will appear to go to any lengths to get 'that shot'. There is no doubt it gets very physical and very intrusive. Give those same photographers access to multi rotor aerial platforms for their cameras and you can only imagine what would happen. The only way to prevent potentially very dangerous behaviour (and probably highly intrusive as well) will be to legislate. The question is whether or not regulation will come before or after incidents start to occur. All too often rules are written with the blood of early victims. What we have to hope for is that when regulation comes the perfectly safe and innocent hobby interests such as our own do not become subject to blanket ban because of knee-jerk reactions by (sometimes) clueless lawmakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 I do find that the approach nobody is responsible except me, and that every one else should be regulated, excepting me, as I am responsible, a rather sad position. I can only reflect that after any incident or tragedy we the modelling community are involved with, that others take a rather jaundiced view of us and our activities. We then complain at the rather broad brush, generalisations trotted out If it is a wish to prevent the commercial use of these devices, I can only see us the hobbyist coming out of any process as a looser. Better, to ensure that operators do comply with CAP regulations and live in harmony, as these devices are not going away. I can see that the emergency services will seek relieve for themselves from some aspects of the regulations, such as 30m from buildings or vessels under observation, or relaxation of the 150m for large crowds and a general tightening up for others. As to the complaints of press intrusion, that is there job, similar to our security services, although almost counter intuitive, that is the price of an open society. Some of the loudest complaints with respect to media intrusion, have come from some whose behaviour is rather shameful, in some cases even criminal, yet often demanding anonymity, Edited By Erfolg on 19/01/2014 20:30:05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spice Cat Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 I was at a serious accident just before Christmas and a quadrocopter flew above us. The pilot was no where in sight the quad disappeared after a few minutes. Fortunately the air ambulance was not requested but I have been to accidents where they landed often with breathtaking skill in very small areas. Thing is, we never seem to get much notice it's coming down and it seems all of a sudden; it's down. (What one pilot called 'a handbrake landing' . Bad idea to fly a UAV above such incidents where HEMS or another full size aircraft could be present. As for the responsibility of the press; two words; Milly Dowler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Spice Cat I would be surprised if anybody would condone the operation of a drone type of vehicle in the manner you describe. The trouble is whose was it, a modeller? I cannot imagine our own media people would operate in such a irresponsible manner, that is the Ashbys, or any of the moderators. Whoever it was was in clear breach of the air navigation acts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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