Bird of Time

[Bill Worsley]

Hi All,

I have kindly been given a set of Dynaflite Bird of Time plans. Unlike the unobtainable RCM plans, they don't have the rib profiles printed on the plan. Does anyone have a set of rib profiles? Or know anywhere I can get some??

Thanks

Bill W

[kc]

Download the RCM plan from Outerzone which shows ribs.

[Nigel Dell]

Bill

The plans are available through the link below rcmplans.

But there is a free download at Outerzone linked below, I could not give the links directly to the plans as it would not let me! but it is straight forward to find.

I have got a set somewhere with the build instructions that I bought from RCM a few years ago but I have no idea where exactly they are due to a house move but if I find them at the weekend I will send you a copy.

Cheers

Nige.

http://www.outerzone.co.uk/

https://www.rcmplans.com/

[Bill Worsley]

Hi,

Thanks for the replies. Please avoid the rcmplans.com website, I sent them the cash for a set of BOT plans6months ago, only to find, that despite them still advertising, they are closed. I came across an American site that is trying to get State Jurisdiction to sort the owners out. PLEASE AVOID

Bill W

[Nigel Dell]

Sorry to hear that Bill, I had no idea it was quite a while ago I got my set along with other plans, I will have a look for my set at the weekend.

Nige.

[Colin Bernard]

This is the Outerzone link - **LINK**

[Bill Worsley]

I contacted the RCM Plans website late yesterday and received the Following reply:-

Thank you for your order with RCM Plans. We are sorry for the delay in responding.

Our system has been down for quite some time. We were locked out of our entire system. We were unable to access the admin portion of the website, emails (which we lost most of), orders, etc. We are trying to resolve the problems with our hosting company. We hope to have all problems resolved by sometime in March. The email portion of the website restarted on 02/14/14.

RCM Plans is very recently under new management and we are seeing to fixing the problems and also to refunding anyone who has not yet received their money back. If someone chooses to receive the product that they ordered, we will also help them with this.

Please let us know if you would like to wait or would like a refund and we will help in any way we can.

Thank you for your understanding in this matter.

Hopefully they have sorted out the problems and are in business again. I will keep my fingers crossed as they said that last time I contacted them several months ago. I must admit that this e-mail looks more hopeful.

Cheers Bill W

[Bill Worsley]

With ref to the Outerzone downloaded plans and all other plans I download... After I download the plans and try to expand them to the right size, not only does the physical size of the plans increase, but as I expected, the drawn lines also expand and it looks like the plans were drawn with a thick piece of Charcoal. does anyone know how to avoid this other than getting full size plans??? Cheers Bill W.

[Nigel Dell]

Hi Bill

It sounds more encouraging re RCM, the sizing you mention, I have noticed that some of the plans are scans of the pages of the magazine articles they came from so are wrong size then you enlarge and get the wrong line weights, I will try that plan later to see what the problem is, I have all the equipment here to produce the plans.

IIRC the original RCM plan of BOT has quite heavy line weights but I would have to find the hard copy to confirm.

Regards

Nige.

[Colin Bernard]

Re your comments on expanding the plans to the right size I am just wondering whether you are actually manipulating an image here?

It should be a case of downloading the PDF from Outerzone and then print out directly, unchecking any 'fit to page' option. No manual expansion needed.

On my copy, whilst the lines are thicker than a modern plan they are workable, sort of 'blunt pencil' thickness rather than 'thick charcoal'.

[Nigel Dell]

Posted by Colin Bernard on 28/02/2014 11:01:16:

Re your comments on expanding the plans to the right size I am just wondering whether you are actually manipulating an image here?

It should be a case of downloading the PDF from Outerzone and then print out directly, unchecking any 'fit to page' option. No manual expansion needed.

On my copy, whilst the lines are thicker than a modern plan they are workable, sort of 'blunt pencil' thickness rather than 'thick charcoal'.

It is my experience that some, read few not by any means all, are saved at completely the wrong size by the originator so you have to suck and see when you print them out, obviously print out with the 'fit to print' unchecked then measuring a know size and enlarge or reduce to suit this can easily worked out.

Also a problem when scanned from the A4 versions and the main issue when enlarging is that the file is of low resolution adding the the problems usually resulting in a bit mapped image.

But most are certainly usable.

[Nigel Dell]

Bill

Have just printed out the BOT from outerzone, this is quite a low res image so lines are slightly jagged for want of a better word, usable, the problem with this image is the original scan is not 100% probably due to the condition of the original hard copy and also look like this scan has been imported into a CAD programme of some sort.

The paper size is 1564.7 x 938.0 mm I can print out the plan so you have the ribs if you like but at the moment I have got A0 paper as the maximum roll size for a job we are doing which is 841 mm the rest of the 4 rolls in the machine are smaller but I can get the ribs on the sheet just not all the airframe but if you already have the plan this should surfice, I will check the size to make sure it was saved at the right size in the first place.

 

If you would like a copy please PM your address and I will try to get this in the post to you today.

 

Nige.

 

Edited By Nigel Dell on 28/02/2014 12:17:40

[Ernie]

Hi All, and especially Bill,

I'm not too happy about the way the BOTwings are fixed to the fuselage. There is not much width on the fuselage to support them, and I'm fearful that the joiners might allow the wing joint to open. up a bit

Any Ideas?

ernie

[Nigel Dell]

Hi Ernie

I can see what you mean, usually the bands would hold them together and I have never heard of issues in this area but belt and braces you can tape the join on the wings with electrical tape as you would on tip panels to make sure or as I will do on the new one and use rare earth magnets to hold the halves together I use this method on a couple of V- tail models where the tailplane is in 2 parts the magnets I use have around 2kgs pull so plenty strong enough for the tailplanes with the bands etc. I am sure they would be fine for the wing of the BOT.

Nige.

[Bill Worsley]

Hi Nige,

Printed plans arrived OK this morning, Many thanks. Wing rib outlines are a bit thick, but if I choose either the inside or outside of the rib outline and stick with my choice for all the ribs, I think we will manage just fine.

Once again Many thanks Bill W.

[Nigel Dell]

Hi Bill

That is good that they arrived quickly! it was a busy day yesterday hence I did not get around to puttinga note in with them!

The scan for that plan is pretty rubbish but at that time I thought the best out of a bad job, I will try and hunt out my set here this weekend and try and get a copy of those out to you on Monday.

At least with the dodgy ones you have a fall back but the original RCM plans are better, still think I remember the lines being a little heavy though.

Have a good weekend.

Nige.

[Bill Worsley]

Ernie,

I have just completed a build of a Mini BOT using laser cut parts from Belair. They have used a 3/16 dowel at the front, through the F1 ply fuselage former. At the rear they use a flat headed nut and bolt, that goes through a 3/16 square spruce cross member. That combination feels really solid, no flexing bands or problematic magnets. It certainly looks better without the bands. I suppose the BOT could be modified in the same way . Maybe 2 dowels at the front and 2 nuts and bolts at the rear. I use a nut/bolt system that is used in book binding. You have a 1/2" long 'Bolt' with a flat head about 3/8"across with a screw slot in it. The 'Nut' is almost identical to the 'Bolt', except instead of the threaded part of the 'Bolt' it has a hollow tube, threaded to accept the 'Bolt' and a flat head on it.

**LINK**

This will explain better.

 

Bill W

Edited By Bill Worsley on 01/03/2014 19:17:20

[Nigel Dell]

I am intrigued Bill, how are magnets problematic?

[Martin Hodgson]

I have a digital copy, scanned from full sized plans if that helps.
As for the wing fixing, it is really not a problem and works great. The BoT was designed originally for F3b, admittedly 1977ish rules but it works so no need to worry

[Barrie Dav 2]

Ernie I've made a centre to be nylon bolted onto the fuz. a nd the wings are plugged into this. I've used this method many times over the years and it works out ok.

[Bill Worsley]

Hi Nige,

I used the word problematic because unlike a nut and bolt fixing, magnetic fixing can come apart, albeit at probably much greater forces than an aircraft/glider will usually generate. But as you get up the scale towards the larger birds, most fixings are solid and don't rely on elastic bands, magnets etc.

The use of earth magnets in the appropriate models is, as you say, a very good idea. Enabling various surfaces to be held together securely but without any visible means of support.

I have used them on hatches on various powered aircraft. The vast majority have held perfectly. I have had one aircraft that initially had a hatch held on by magnets. On returning from a flight the hatch was missing. I can only assume that during the flight the hatch slipped and the airstream lifted it off. I remade the hatch cover, put a cocktail stick dowel in the front, another magnet and it held fine after that.

I suppose that it is down to the builder to try and foresee problems and overcome them before the problem occurs.

Bill W.

[Bill Worsley]

Hi Martin,

I have a full set of Dynaflite plans from Ernie, but they don't have the wing rib profiles on, as the RCM plans do, but attempts to expand these files to full size make the plans, not really usable. If your copy has the wing ribs on they would be very useful.

Thanks Bill W.

[Martin Hodgson]

Hi Bill,

Ribs are all on the plan- it's the original magazine plan from RCM- I have the article from the mag as well if that is any use. I scanned the plan in parts but have not got around to stitching it together. However it is full sized.

Have no idea how to attach a file here and it is quite big (the tiled plan is about 13Mb) so it's probably best if you let me have an email to send it to.

Martin

[Nigel Dell]

Posted by Bill Worsley on 02/03/2014 12:16:22:

Hi Nige,

I used the word problematic because unlike a nut and bolt fixing, magnetic fixing can come apart, albeit at probably much greater forces than an aircraft/glider will usually generate. But as you get up the scale towards the larger birds, most fixings are solid and don't rely on elastic bands, magnets etc.

The use of earth magnets in the appropriate models is, as you say, a very good idea. Enabling various surfaces to be held together securely but without any visible means of support.

I have used them on hatches on various powered aircraft. The vast majority have held perfectly. I have had one aircraft that initially had a hatch held on by magnets. On returning from a flight the hatch was missing. I can only assume that during the flight the hatch slipped and the airstream lifted it off. I remade the hatch cover, put a cocktail stick dowel in the front, another magnet and it held fine after that.

I suppose that it is down to the builder to try and foresee problems and overcome them before the problem occurs.

Bill W.

Hi Bill

Ah yes I see what you mean, in the recent nod towards the Retro thing I am tending to build models as originally designed with little tweaks to make them more modern friendly without losing the originals finish.

With BOT I was keeping with the bands and making the whole thing more secure i.e. using tape for the wing join so they can not slip apart or magnets, we are not talking of the little 6mm round ones here but 20mm x 6mm x 2mm, you can not use these for hatches, well you can but you need a crowbar to separate them!!

I use these on the V-tail of F3F / B machines and nothing moves them! but as you have a reasonable area to hold onto they are fine for these applications.

But I do agree bolts are a better than bands, I particularly like Barry's method in the pictures he posted.

Cheers

Nige.

[Bill Worsley]

Hi Martin,

Thanks for the offer. PM sent with e-mail address. Cheers Bill W.