.. Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I've just read an interesting statement from the BMFA regarding suspicious activity involving model flying. **LINK** A scary thought indeed ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 What a load of.. My knees are quivering. They can use anything from a Cherokee jeep to an airliner, why would they bother with a silly little model plane that cannot carry anything that would make a big enough bang to make an impact? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I can't see the FaceBook page but if it is this statement from their website : "Following a recent meeting with representatives of the Special Branch Counter Terrorism Unit, it has been requested that we ask all BMFA members to increase vigilance for any signs of potential criminal or terrorist activity arising from the use of model aircraft. This is part of regional and national initiatives introduced by the Counter Terrorism Unit aimed at gaining enhanced vigilance from those involved in all aspects of aviation. Should any member observe anything (or anyone) suspicious and giving rise to concerns about potential criminal or terrorist activity involving model flying, the Counter Terrorism unit would like you to contact the BMFA directly in the first instance on 0116 2440028 or email [email protected] " Being in the RAF I can see where they are going. Terrorist or criminal activity is not just about bombs and the threats are real and occur every day. With the advent of FPV and planes that transmit video real time to users it can be used for the purposes of data gathering prior to a planned attack. Plus, you would be surprised how much damage a directed attack using a small explosive device can be. I would say that they are being quite proactive and would suggest that this has already occurred elsewhere for the CTU to issue a warning about the threat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john melia 1 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Totally agree John , makes gathering info a lot easier for these scumbags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Posted by Bandit on 27/03/2014 12:45:49: What a load of.. My knees are quivering. They can use anything from a Cherokee jeep to an airliner, why would they bother with a silly little model plane that cannot carry anything that would make a big enough bang to make an impact? Really ?? I think you will find that the Americans for one are using these everyday in Afghanistan. Ok the ones they use don't have hobby king painted on the side but the principal is the same. And as John points out explosives have come on a long way since the cowboy & lit stick of dynamite era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 No more data can be collected than from FPV than can be obtained from google earth or a telescope. Half the information anyone could want is on the net anyhow probably in a youtube clip explaining what it is! It's another load of scare-mongering not proactive at all and I would have expected the BMFA to be concentrating on promoting model flying rather than spreading scares like this. Acts of terrorism can be executed with so many things like the Jeep driving into the buildings we saw on the news, did that warrant any motoring association sending out terror warnings? Suspicious ha! So anyone seen doing FPV, which many are suspicious of will be reported to the BMFA? How did I guess this would come back to FPV...I'll have to be careful I might get lop-sided again. What do you need a camera for anyhow just fly the thing line of sight, more room for your bigger firework! And besides a terrorist is not stupid (misguided but not stupid), you would not see any of their activities the same way no-one realised anything was happening till planes started flying into buildings. I know people with 50cc planes who complain the airframe is getting too heavy after adding a smoke system and that is going to warrant the counter terrorism Unit's attention? They had a 'heavy lift' competition with universities competing to produce a plane to lift a heavy load, half of them did not even take-off and these people were studying aerodynamics!!! It's pointless scaremongering in my humble opinion. Anything to distract from the real issues facing model flying like no land use rights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Posted by Justin K on 27/03/2014 13:04:28: Posted by Bandit on 27/03/2014 12:45:49: What a load of.. My knees are quivering. They can use anything from a Cherokee jeep to an airliner, why would they bother with a silly little model plane that cannot carry anything that would make a big enough bang to make an impact? Really ?? I think you will find that the Americans for one are using these everyday in Afghanistan. Ok the ones they use don't have hobby king painted on the side but the principal is the same. And as John points out explosives have come on a long way since the cowboy & lit stick of dynamite era. And yes Really?? the Americans have pumped millions into those things they use in Afghanistan so I would expect them to have gone a long way. Frankly if you have money to spend on terror you could find more effective ways to deliver a hit. I stand by my reaction, it's scaremongering at a high level distracting from promoting the hobby. Disappointing to say the least! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Sorry Bandit but that is simply NOT the case. Google earth does not give you everything you need in any meaningful way and to discount it is not really seeing the larger issues. Google earth does not give you the high res intel that you need, such as fence, guard whereabouts and a lot of the data is edited. How do I know? I look outside of where I work and see different things in my field of view to what google earth shows me. It isn't scaremongering, it does not detract from the hobby at all but rather tells us that these items can and obviously have been used for intel gathering. I think you're being overly sensitive towards FPV but these systems can be used for purposes other than simply for fun. We use these systems in afghanistan : **LINK** for intel gathering and, obviously, by the warnings from the counter terrorist units, model aircraft systems are being used here. The Counter Terrorist Units have a lot more important stuff to do than give warnings such as these simply to discredit a hobby, so, in my experience, if it is important enough for them to give a warning it is quite obviously important enough to give it credence. Edited By John F on 27/03/2014 13:49:14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 So if google earth doesn't give it to you buy a DSLR with a nice big zoom. You'll make less noise than a model aircraft If you buy one on e bay it will be cheaper too What a load of....a terrorist is going to go to the guys selling that system and say 'Can I have five please?' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 The UK Ministry of Defence awarded a $31m contract to Prox Dynamics through Marlborough Communications for the delivery of 160 units of Black Hornets for its armed forces. That works out at £193 750 each!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What this does is highlight how toys can be expensive when you spending other people's money!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 go flying lads clubs been on same field years, some have FPV plus rest of it nobody bothers us, not seen a SWAT team yet Edited By john stones 1 on 27/03/2014 14:21:17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 01160244.... Hello.... John is flying FPV on his own! He looks like he's having fun with all his funny blue batteries, they could be bombs. He's smiling! Must be he is plotting something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Calm yourself down, Bandit.... Show me just where in that statement by the BMFA it refers to FPV - 'cos I can't see it! I'm thinking you're being a tad sensitive about the subject, eh? Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 If you see some of the electric powered foamies used by the army they are simple fixed wing fpv jobs. It's no big secret, it's even on the TV in recruitment ads. Most reasonable models could carry a kg of payload without too much trouble so it is a viable terrorist weapon. However - if Abdhul wants to buy a model and learn to fly, he is unlikely to practice kamikaze missions at the club field or ask the local model shop if Semtex will affect the foam. Plenty of ARTFs on ebay! One option a model (fpv even) offers over GoogleEarth or a camera is real time monitoring of secure siites where you wouldn't get anywhere with your Kodak but an electric model at high altitude wouldn't be noticed. Edited By Bob Cotsford on 27/03/2014 14:53:55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I was replying to John he brought up FPV Don't worry I am calm, you cannot fluster me , it looks like the scaremongers are scared and worried and want me to join their ranks. I think I am more irritated by scares like this as it is unnecessary to conjure-up possible scenarios involving model aircraft that can be implemented by many other types of vehicle. In fact you do not need a vehicle to gain intelligence at all or carry a weapon. It seems to me that our association assumes common sense is lacking if they have to tell people to report suspicious activity that could relate to terrorism. If you need to be told please do not reply!! If I thought there was a possibility that an average model aircraft could pose a serious threat, I would be looking to contact authorities not bmfa. If you have £193 750.00 to buy an Afghanistan little drone you'd probably be playing with it where you or I would not see. Like your own farm or private estate. Somehow I don't think you can buy an Afghanistan little drone for £193 750.00 Not convinced sorry, it's unnecessary scaremongering, and now to add a camera to a little helicopter with the hopes of paying off the mortgage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Posted by Bob Cotsford on 27/03/2014 14:50:29: If you see some of the electric powered foamies used by the army they are simple fixed wing fpv jobs. It's no big secret, it's even on the TV in recruitment ads. Most reasonable models could carry a kg of payload without too much trouble so it is a viable terrorist weapon. However - if Abdhul wants to buy a model and learn to fly, he is unlikely to practice kamikaze missions at the club field or ask the local model shop if Semtex will affect the foam. Plenty of ARTFs on ebay! One option a model (fpv even) offers over GoogleEarth or a camera is real time monitoring of secure siites where you wouldn't get anywhere with your Kodak but an electric model at high altitude wouldn't be noticed. Edited By Bob Cotsford on 27/03/2014 14:53:55 Most FPV models won't carry 1kg over and above the gear they already carry assuming you need the range from a descent battery. Up at altitude, if you have tried FPV you will see why I argue Google earth gives similar results so fair comment about monitoring movement on secure sites, but if you can get away with it there is something wrong with that secure site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 We should be vigilant.But why is it that drones are not being used to find wreckage of MH370? Or have I missed something on the news? Better than risking pilots and big planes in a hostile environment ( I mean Antarctic oceans)Edited By kc on 27/03/2014 15:10:13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 maybe because the wreckage is thought to be thousands of miles offshore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Williams Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I don't think there's any scaremongering going on here. Special Branch have been taking an interest in full size airfields for years, since the days when the only terrorism was from the IRA. At the very small airfield that I used to work at we would get a visit from them at least once a year. They were mostly interested in any overseas flights and were looking for smuggling, both goods and people, as well as being very interested in flights to and from Ireland or the Isle of Man. Before you jump in Bandit, I'm not suggesting that models could be used for people smuggling, just pointing out that there's nothing really new here - it's just an extension of stuff that's been going on for ages. I roll my eyes at stuff like this too, but unfortunately it's a result of the world we now live in. As for FPV, it seems to me that the biggest threat comes from FPVers themselves, posting supposedly clever and hilarious exploits on youtube that are actually dangerous and illegal. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Fair comment again David but I am not convinced. FPVers may all be posting supposedly clever and hilarious exploits on youtube that are dangerous and illegal and should obviously all be lined-up against a wall and dealt with as anyone in FPV is obviously doing illegal stuff and terrorism. I am not convinced this is anything more than scaremongering. We have visited all the scenarios in the discussion and none of them point to model planes being any more worthy of the attention of terrorists than say a Cherokee jeep or Ford Fiesta. Also tell me why you need the BMFA to tell you to report any suspicious activity? The world we live in seems to insist on manufacturing scenarios and scares such as this and telling us what we should do about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Rothwell Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Nearly 1st April........just a thought!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Posted by Davwik on 27/03/2014 15:48:26: Nearly 1st April........just a thought!! Birthday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I am sorry Bandit but no-one has stated that FPV is a bad thing, I simply mentioned it as an example of how it isn't just about how much bang can be fitted in a model. Maybe I should have said they also use aircraft fitted with video recorders too? People do use these for intel gathering and to say "buy a DSLR with a nice big zoom" shows you don't understand nor want to. Having said that bombs don't have to be that big these days and a well placed bomblet can still kill. Seen it in Iraq and Kosovo more times than I care to remember when kids picked the things up. This isn't about scaremongering; it is about highlighting. The threats are real but I won't go any further as you're intent on taking the whole thing out of the context it is presented in and just want to mock the message. Edited By John F on 27/03/2014 16:00:01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 You said FPVers so I can only assume all, so a lesson in generalisation there You are right, I don't want to understand why anyone would scaremonger us into some sort of state about terrorism regarding our hobby. You can simply throw a grenade through an open door you don't need a plane or whatever, they have been around for years grenades so there is nothing new that has not been around for decades! Oh but these days it's smaller....nonsense!! Oh but with 2.4 etc etc. For god's sake 35mhz is supposedly capable of further range than 2.4. Oh but planes these days can carry more like aerodynamics has completely changed in recent years which is why we have gone backwards and dropped the Concorde! I say buy a DSLR because the quality from a high-up plane would be useless so rather use google as people say a high-up FPV plane could go undetected! There is nothing mocking about this. It IS in my opinion scaremongering and you have to use a little more than scaremongering to convince me this is all a load of nonsense. And if you need the BMFA to tell you to report something suspicious then there is no hope! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I've now re-opened this thread for those who wish to continue posting on the subject in our usual, rational manner, folks....... Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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