Fleet RC

[David Ashby - Moderator]

I'm trying to contact Fleet Rc for a reader. The website is open but they're not answering the phone or replying to emails.
Has anyone had any recent contact ?

[Tom Sharp]

I read on another forum that the present owners (Lipets?) are trying to offload the Fleet interest but without success at the moment.

[Bernard Shaw]

I have been given, what appears to be, a new, unused, seven channel PCM digi-fleet set. I cannot get any response from the system despite checking batteries, switch and what I can. I understand that Feet Systems in no longer trading and am not sure what to do to get it fixed. Any suggestions?

[David Ashby - Moderator]

Bernard

In all honesty the kind answer may be to throw it away. When you factor in the cost of getting it repaired against the peace of mind a new set of R/C gear will bring then it's really not worth using. Despite appearing outwardly new if you've not owned it from new yourself then you dont really know how it has been treated. It could have been dropped at some stage?

Repair wise, if you're keen to get it fixed then all you can do is to see if one of the other brand distributors will look at it for you - Futaba or JR but I'd be suprised if they do. I know of no specialist independant repair centres that will handle it, all the Fleet users I've know have now moved to Futaba or JR.

Don't waste time on it

David.

[Tim Mackey]

AMEN

[Essjay]

In the early 70's, my first radio was a set of Fleet 2 channel radio (single axis sticks). I had all sorts of reliability problems with it. I seem to remember that even then everyone used to refer to Digi-Fleet as Dodgy-Fleet. Nuff said

Steve

[Tom Sharp]

I had at least six Fleet sets over the years, never had any trouble with any of them. The only trouble was they never got into computer sets, although one was promised.

[Peter Miller]

I used Fleet exclusively for some years until towards the end. I  had very little trouble with it. Mainly one fault with the Computer Rx which developed a fault which flattened the batttery.

TOM: yes they did make the computer set but it had no screen and was a pain to set up, masses of buttons in the back and you had to plug a mulitmeter in if you wanted to read any values. I suspect that was what killed Fleet off.

[Mike Rolls]

Tom - as Peter says they did do a computer set - called the Omega - I still have one althoug I haven't used it in years. It was all hardware controlled and you had to play with switces and count flashes on LEDs inside the case to prgramme it. I bought it because I had and liked their earlier TX (can't remember whatit was called - PCM7 or something?) and assumed - wrongly - that programming the Omega would soon become second nature. It didn't and I moved on the a Futaba FF7.

Incidentally I lived at Haslemere at the time and was a member of the Guildford MFG and Border MFC - Fleet were just down the road and quite a few of us had Fleet gear - and found it just as good as anybody else's.

Mike

[Mark Lubbock]

Hi,

Reply to Bernard-You may have already done this, but check the TX is switched to PCM if you have a PCM RX or vice-versa. I had loads of trouble setting up a Micron RX because I forgot this switch!!

Incidentally, I have used Fleet gear for many years now without a hitch-It's sorry to see them go.

[electrotor]

Fleets last three transmitters were XP/FM (PPM only), MX7 (PPM & PCM) and Omega 7 Pro (PPM & PCM). The Omega was programable, after a fashion with switches and LEDs and had a 10 model memory.

When Derek Olley retired Lippetts bought Fleet and retained him as a consultant. At about this time he also produced a compatibility sheet the contents of which I will post in subsequent messages due to it exceeding the 1500 character limit. Initially Lippeatts supplied various Fleet items and there was a hint that some new products were in the pipeline but alas nothing materialised. Sadly Derek died not long after retiring.

I use mainly Fleet equipment with very few problems. I still find the joysticks a cut above most others and still prefer the smooth uncluttered appearance of the tx to most of the macho/ghetto blaster styled sets out there.

[electrotor]

Compatibility of Digifleet with other makes of equipment (Part 1)

 This information is presented in the light of best available knowledge at the time, but no guarantees are intended or implied; it is your responsibility to check the suitability and performance of any mixing and matching. CRYSTALS In general, always use the same maker’s crystal with the unit it is plugged into; always use a Fleet crystal in a Fleet receiver, Futaba crystal in a Futaba transmitter, and so on. For 27 MHZ FM, we still have reasonable stocks of crystals but Futaba are a close match, if you can find any of their FM crystals for this band. For 35 MHz FM, Futaba crystals are again a close match, while most Japanese receiver crystals will be OK, albeit with some possible loss of interference rejection due to broader tolerances. For 40 MHz FM, you must use Fleet Tx crystals, while Futaba crystals are again an adequate match for the receiver. Note that PCM equipment uses FM crystals.  Also, when checking the frequency of a Tx crystal, it should measure within 500Hz of nominal when the Tx is switched to PCM. TRANSMITTER AND RECEIVER Fleet PCM equipment uses our own code, thus you must use a Fleet PCM Tx to drive a Fleet PCM receiver, nothing else will do.  For the same reason, you must use a (say) JR PCM Rx with a JR PCM Tx and so on.  At least with Fleet, any of our Fleet PCM receivers will work with any of the PCM transmitters, with other makes they can have 2, 3 or more incompatible codes. Fleet FM transmitters all use the industry standard 20 ms frame time with 8 pulses of 400 ecs a nominal 1.5 ms apart.  The servo position or movement is 90° for 1 to 2 ms with neutral at 1.5 ms, trim throw is a minimum of 20% giving an overall throw of 0.8 to 2.2 msecs.  The FM bandwidth is 2 to 2.5 KHz, with the base line at -1 KHz and the top of the pulses at +1 to 1.5 KHz.  Because of the offset mark-space ratio with the standard FM system, the Tx radiated output measured on a frequency metre is 700 Hz below nominal. This is different to the PCM case. Choosing a transmitter - I suggest you try a Futaba Skysport 6, or perhaps a recent Sanwa, again, try a fairly basic type. Unfortunately, the Futaba computer screen transmitters seem to use a non-standard (ca. 15 ms) frame time which causes problems with our receivers. Fleet receivers have a full 5 volt pulse output to the normal CMOS standard, so they should drive just about any servo.  The only exceptions are the early PCM receivers which had a .7 volt baseline above battery negative; later receivers (1988 - 1990) had this figure reduced to .3 volt, which solves all those mini servo jitter problems.  There is no problem with later receivers due to a change of microprocessor. Choosing a receiver - third party units ought to be choice (like GWS, etc) but in practise our customer feedback plus our own measurements give contradictory results.  So, I am back to suggesting you try a Futaba, and yes, it can be a double-conversion type, but you will definitely need a new Rx crystal.

[electrotor]

Compatibility of Digifleet with other makes of equipment (Part 2)

SERVOS As detailed above, all should work OK, however, don’t blame the receiver for the poor servo performance, there is a wide choice out there, from the excellent down to the downright ‘yuk’. The following servos have been extensively tested and all work well with Fleet transmitters and receivers.

All Hitec except as noted.

HS-801 and HS-701 for yachts

HS-   standard size, powerful metal gears

FP-148 and -3001 (Futaba) standard size

HS-225BB and -225MGB powerful mini

HS-81 and -81MG powerful micro (16 to 18 grams)

HS-55 park fly (7.8 grams) PLUGS & SOCKETS

The Fleet uses ribbon wire with a negative (black) centre lead, while the servo socket (or plug) which plugs into the receiver is a Berg Dubox 3 way crimp.  If you are going to have a mixed system with the Futaba/JR standard of centre lead positive (red) always use the correct plugs and sockets all the time to avoid any accidental mis-connections.  The ensuing smoke can be expensive. 

SWITCH HARNESS 

Make sure that the switch in the receiver switch harness will stand up to the intended vibration levels.

[electrotor]

As the compatibility document states Fleet used Berg Dubox connectors. These are still available from Deltron UK amongst others but may be subject to a large minimum order quantity. Altermatively you can simply swap over the pins in a Futaba/JR style connector. They are also 0.1" pitch but you must be more careful when plugging into a Fleet receiver to orientate correctly.

If anyone needs a copy of the Omega programming instructions I have it in .pdf format and will happily email it to you.

[electrotor]

Compatibility of Digifleet with other makes of equipment (Part 1 again!)

This information is presented in the light of best available knowledge at the time, but no guarantees are intended or implied; it is your responsibility to check the suitability and performance of any mixing and matching.

CRYSTALS

In general, always use the same maker’s crystal with the unit it is plugged into; always use a Fleet crystal in a Fleet receiver, Futaba crystal in a Futaba transmitter, and so on. For 27 MHZ FM, we still have reasonable stocks of crystals but Futaba are a close match, if you can find any of their FM crystals for this band. For 35 MHz FM, Futaba crystals are again a close match, while most Japanese receiver crystals will be OK, albeit with some possible loss of interference rejection due to broader tolerances. For 40 MHz FM, you must use Fleet Tx crystals, while Futaba crystals are again an adequate match for the receiver. Note that PCM equipment uses FM crystals.  Also, when checking the frequency of a Tx crystal, it should measure within 500Hz of nominal when the Tx is switched to PCM.

TRANSMITTER AND RECEIVER

Fleet PCM equipment uses our own code, thus you must use a Fleet PCM Tx to drive a Fleet PCM receiver, nothing else will do.  For the same reason, you must use a (say) JR PCM Rx with a JR PCM Tx and so on.  At least with Fleet, any of our Fleet PCM receivers will work with any of the PCM transmitters, with other makes they can have 2, 3 or more incompatible codes. Fleet FM transmitters all use the industry standard 20 ms frame time with 8 pulses of 400 micro secs a nominal 1.5 ms apart.  The servo position or movement is 90° for 1 to 2 ms with neutral at 1.5 ms, trim throw is a minimum of 20% giving an overall throw of 0.8 to 2.2 msecs.  The FM bandwidth is 2 to 2.5 KHz, with the base line at -1 KHz and the top of the pulses at +1 to 1.5 KHz.  Because of the offset mark-space ratio with the standard FM system, the Tx radiated output measured on a frequency metre is 700 Hz below nominal. This is different to the PCM case.

Choosing a transmitter - I suggest you try a Futaba Skysport 6, or perhaps a recent Sanwa, again, try a fairly basic type. Unfortunately, the Futaba computer screen transmitters seem to use a non-standard (ca. 15 ms) frame time which causes problems with our receivers. Fleet receivers have a full 5 volt pulse output to the normal CMOS standard, so they should drive just about any servo.  The only exceptions are the early PCM receivers which had a .7 volt baseline above battery negative; later receivers (1988 - 1990) had this figure reduced to .3 volt, which solves all those mini servo jitter problems.  There is no problem with later receivers due to a change of microprocessor. Choosing a receiver - third party units ought to be choice (like GWS, etc) but in practise our customer feedback plus our own measurements give contradictory results.  So, I am back to suggesting you try a Futaba, and yes, it can be a double-conversion type, but you will definitely need a new Rx crystal.

[Peter Miller]

I use a Futaba Field Force 8 TX with my old standard (non-PCM) Fleet Rx and servos in my Easy Pigeon EP Glider (The only EP ARTF that I have ever liked!!!!)

I have a Fleet Xtal in the Rx. Range is to the limits of visibility and my eye sight is very good.

I did have several Fleet batteries that gave up the ghost rather quickly but I still have one some ten years old that holds its charge perfectly. I only use it on the bench now just in case.

[Flanker .]

I LOVED my PCM MX 7 As someone said, what lovely sticks! Much nicer than my FF 9

Never a glitch untill I dropped it packing to move an it........ caught fire! I actuly cried! I only through the bitz away the other week. Sad to see 'em go.

McGregor whent Far East at just the right time, pity fleet did not do the same and just use their box n sticks, what made those sticks so nice?

[electrotor]

When MacGregor went Far East they ended up simply selling JR and the Digimac line ceased. I had a Digimac 4 which had the most resilient NiCads I have ever encountered.

I think the Fleet sticks are so nice because they were built to a spec and not to a price.

Fleet txs & rxs were manufactured in the UK and only the servos sourced from the Far East, either to a Fleet spec. or simply re-badged and re-plugged. Manufacturing costs were a real issue for Derek Olley which meant he was really up against it from the competition. I asked him once why he didn't incorporate a display with the Omega 7. The reason was because it would have substantially increased the cost. Latterly Fleet gear was fairly expensive but I stuck with it because it worked very well and the service was superb.

[Tom Sharp]

Flanker;

I too dropped my PCM MX 7, or at least I knocked it off the bench. It too caught fire. Still I have four other Fleet sets in working order, the pity is I dont use them any more. An early one,  Pro 7 has SRC (Skyleader Radio Control) written on the control stick structure. These sticks are a more simple set up than the later excellent ones mention in the previous posts. The servos are also SRC, with the choice of rotory or linear operation.

[Trevor Crook]

I worked part-time for Derek over a long period, but don't know what the situation with the business is since he and Ernie retired and sold it on. It must be very difficult to compete with the far-eastern labour costs, and the economies of scale from a world-wide market, which Fleet never really had.

I still use much of the Fleet gear I still have, and have always found it as reliable as any other. The Omega set gave 10 model memories when the equivalent Futaba FF6 only had 4. The PCM failsafe is also much easier to use than on the FF7, which I also have - the transmitter has a failsafe button which you press while holding the controls as you want them. This is safe and easy while flying. The receiver then remembers that setting. The Futaba failsafe can only be set up on the ground. The FF7 does a lot more, though.

Sadly Derek died last year, and we lost one of British R/Cs true pioneers, who stayed in business longer than any other UK manufacturer. 

[Chris Dowsett]

Thanks for posting the compatibility info Eric.  You do not happen to have a circuit diagram of the PCM MX7 tranny do you?  Mine developed a fault yesterday at  the flying field.  All controls at full deflection at TX switch on but progressively recovering to normal after a time.  Did not stop flying but something is on the way out!

Reliability excellent up to now.  Like the sticks but not the model memory or servo wiring compatibility.   Best never to mix flight systems because of the servo connections and lack of model memory.  Prefer analogue trims on the Fleet gear to digital on my Futaba.

[Flanker .]

AAAAH I had that. On mine it was caused by a build up of filth around the big main chip on the circuit board, cleaned it of with alcohol and all was well.

F 

[electrotor]

Sorry Chris I don't have any Fleet circuit diagrams. Perhaps Trevor who posted earlier has some. Perhaps also Ernie, who had a very long association with Fleet could also help out. However I don't know his whereabouts. Let me make a few enquiries though.

[electrotor]

Sorry, no joy with Ernie's whereabouts.

I do however have a contact address for someone who may be able to help with Fleet repairs. PM me if you are interested.

[Tim Spencer]

I want to get into helis after a break from slope-soaring. Anyone know if I can use my Omega Tx with the Reflex flight sim? If so what connector would be required?

I'd like to practice before investing in new kit.