Electric Sea Fury

[Danny Fenton]

Hi Stephen, excellent work that looks like it should be very reliable

How much more have you got to do before flying?

 

Cheers

Danny

[Stephen Stokes]

 

Hi Danny
Brought all the bitts, will be using Li-Po's

Painted the air frame, added invasion stripes
Brought a 100mm spinner and painted with a red pattern, I know not consistent but looks nice

 

Fitted the wings out, modified the flaps so the push rods are internal.

Got a pilot and painted him.

Just need to fit it out, my plan is to have this ready for the end of March when the weather improves…..

I also want to fit a dummy arrester hook and landing lights.

After reading the article in the magazine I was also contemplating adding sound, but the price and weight may be an issue.

[Danny Fenton]

Sounds like a plan Stephen, how are you going to access the LiPos for fast removal?

 

Cheers

Danny

[Stephen Stokes]

Haven’t thought that far.

Will probably cut the cowl and make a hatch to access them from underneath

Did you ever get a multi blade prop to work? 

[Danny Fenton]

Hii Stephen, I am probably going to get a load of flack over this, but you really should consider A123. they fit without any modifcations to the model and they can be charged in situ so no hatches. Just my two penneth.

 

The multiblade prop I made was for when the model was flying on 8S A123. Now that I have changed it to 6S2P the prop diameter is too small at around 16" I need to make another, and to be honest I have moved on to other models. I may try measuring the thrust that the 5 blader produces and see but I very much doubt it will be enough without the motor having to run at full throttle the entire flight which is no good.

 

I look forward to some pics and a flight report

 

Cheers

Danny

 

 

[Stephen Stokes]

Ok

A123 - at 4500mah 6s2P 900g and around £44

Li-Po - 2No 5000mah 3s1p 740g and around £47

 

I would need to buy a charger as well. All my chargers don't do LiFe

 

The 2 Li-Po packs I could use in other air frames.

 

Thats a lot of extra weight and the batteries would be dedicated to only one plane.....but I see where your comming from.

 

On 6 LiFe did you change the motor and what prop did you use.

Was the extra weight a problem.

[Tim Mackey]

Eh?

12 X A123 cells for £44 ?

Please tell me where you are buying these from as I will clear out their stock

Average price for a genuine M1 cell is about £8  - £9 a pop.

 

PS 6s2P would actually be 4600mahr not 4500.

Edited By Timbo - Administrator on 13/01/2010 18:35:16

[Danny Fenton]

Hi Stephen, I thought that might prompt a reply from Timbo AND Mr Bott.......

 

Have to agree with Timbo, I pay around that price, so for 12 you are talking £108, I paid £55 for a single 5S1P lipo, which is slightly less (useable) capacity than a 4600 A123 pack.

 

However the Lipo gives its best for the first couple of minutes then is declining, A123 give punch right to the end. IMO only the very best (expensive) Lipos which cost about the same as A123 can deliver hundreds of cycles and not deteriate rapidly. I have had lipos that have only lasted 6 months, I have all my A123 packs from nearly 4 years ago and ALL are still performing as if new.

 

I can charge them safely in the plane, at up to 20A.

They do not need cooling ducts.

They do not need access hatches.

They do not catch fire.

They can be left in the model when not in use.

They are very rugged.

They can be run flat (obviously not advised to do so)

They are not as far off the weight of a Lipo when you look at the useable capacity. A lipo can only sensibly be discharged to around 75% otherwise damage will be caused.

 

Yes the airframe can carry the additional weight, in fact the weight seems to make it fly with more authority. The prop is an 18 x 12

 

As for a charger yes you are right you would need a new charger, I splashed out on a new one recently that was around £50.

 

Almost all of mine and Chris and Chris Botts models use a combination of the same 6 cell bricks, and as such we can move them around between our models. Indeed Chris loaned me a pair of 6's so that I could fly my Hurricane on 12S1P and the Fury on 6S2P at Raydon last year without moving them around. so you can move them between models. My Chipmunk is built to accept either 6S3P A123 or 5S2P LiPo, no motor change is needed. I tell the ESC that I am using NiCd or some ridiculous number of cells to avoid the cutoff killing power when the A123 cells dip under 3v per cell which is normal.

 

Brian Collins is now selling A123 M1 and his PDF is very well written IMO and explains the pros and cons really well.

 

 Link to A123 data

 

Anyway sorry got on my A123 soap box lol (again)

Cheers

Danny

[Stephen Stokes]

In my naivety I just looked up LeFe cells on the HK web site and a 3s Li-Po of similar capacity with good recommendations from buyers.

A123 – one pack $69.99 / 1.6 = £43.74

** LINK **

Li-Po – 2x$37.20 / 1.6 = £46.50

** LINK **

Are these not the same quality as you recommend?

Edited By Chris Bott - Moderator on 11/11/2012 20:02:21

[Danny Fenton]

Hi Stephen, I think Timbo (correct me if I am wrong Timbo) tried some of the soft LiFe packs and wasn't impressed.

 

Nope the ones we use are the same as used in high end DeWalt power tools, so you know they have to be bullet proof, and long lasting.

 

A123 M1 nano phosphates

 

I am sorry to go on about them, but I have wasted so much money on lipos its silly. Its a false economy to buy cheap lipos though they are getting much better.

 

If you are into EDF or serious 3d and really need every once of power to weight then there is no alternative (yet) to LiPo but if you fly normal stuff like I do, then the A123 cells pay themselves back very quickly. I have had hundreds of flights out of my Wot 4 over the last 3 years. It's on 6 cells, its been fast charged, flattened, and sat in the sunshine all day at various fun fly's. Best bit was i completely flattened it accidently, and put back in 2275mAh, it only holds 2300 when new, and thats after 3 years abuse!!

 

See I am at it again............sorry Stephen, if you come along to the Greenacres Fun Fly on July 24/25th i will buy you a coffee for putting up with my soap box ramblings. And you can do a bit of formation with our two Fury's, that would be a nice sight

 

Cheers

Danny

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

Blimey Danny that's quite a soapbox! Even beats some of my rants

Stephen there are many ways to do things and Lipo's will work too.

A123's are certainly an investment, but I too believe overall cost of ownership is favourable.

We have not tried those LiFePo4's. People have had very poor results from LiFePo4's that are anything other than A123 manufactured. These may be better, but without testing we don't know.

All our "40" sized models and above use A123 cells, with systems designed around 6S packs. The packs just go on and on, keep coming back for more punishment and just "perform".

Dannys link (which is to Hyperion by the way not BRC) is to a pdf that explains exactly what we have experienced very well indeed.

It's expensive to get in to, but we are absolutely sure its cheaper in the long run.

If you need to get going at a particular budget. Lipos will be the cheapest startup cost.

For LiPo's have a look at Loong Max Tipple cells, these promise to be very good although I've not tested any yet. (They are in the post). Available at giantcod and robotbirds.

Have fun, let us know how it goes.

Chris

[Tim Mackey]

Danny is correct - I have tried the "unbranded" LiFe packs and was not impressed - maybe not a co-incidence, but BRC stopped stocking these very soon after I bought them.

I ended up throwing them out. As Chris says, these Turnigy packs are an unknown qty, so cant comment, but a good price and I may try these to assess them.

Note that hobbyking do sell the genuine A123 cells /packs, and the prices are pretty much as I said earlier.

Chris..... I already have several of the Tipple packs ( 5C chargeable ) and am impressed so far.

Of course, they will not have the super long life and indestructability of A123s though

[Danny Fenton]

See we have even managed to brainwash the illustrious Mr Timbo

 

Timbo....... you going to try and get to Greenacres this year, I might buy you a sticky bun  I am not doing very well at getting over to that small boulder you fly from am I?  

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

Formation flying 3 electric Furys, how could Timbo resist a sight like that while eating a sticky bun??

Only joking, our funfly promises to be as good and relaxed as ever this year. Might even be a bit warmer because the dates have had to change from the usual ones.

 

Here's a taste from last year Greenacres Electric Funfly 2009

Everyone is welcome.

 

Chris

(GMAC Electric Sec)

 

 

 

[Tim Mackey]

Certainly will try Danny / Chris. Can I bring Lipo powered models

[Danny Fenton]

As much as I would like it to be an A123 fun fly i think we may have a poor turn out if that were the case. Last year we still had models on NiCds and Nimhs, everything has its place. I have yet to see a lemon powered model but even that would be most welcome

 

Cheers

Danny

[Tim Mackey]

Well I have had a few models over the years that turned out to be lemons

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

 

I think we could probably arange Lemon sticky buns .

 

Could go well off topic here so had better get back to Sea Furys..

We can start a "what are you bringing and what would you like to see" nearer the time on it's own thread.

 

My seagul Sea Fury. So far still in standard grey film. Should I paint it up nice and smart like Danny's? or just stick the stickers on?? 

 

Painting looks fantastic (well Danny's does) but is quite some effort, and I don't have the facilities. I could mess it up too!.

Leaving it standard has its advantages. I've invested less in it so am happier to fly it

Also it shows just how good a transformation can be made to an ARTF when you see his!

Oh and it means I can get on with other projects...

[scott cuppello]

Decided to do one of these at last....such a fantastic aircraft......going with 8s, 15"  four blade set up, around 2kw, it was going to be a Hanger 9 Blue-nose P51....but I have been pretty under-whelmed by reports [for £100 more than the Sea Fury I hasten to add] since it's release.

[Tim Mackey]

Interesting....the price diffeence is considerable isnt it. The blue nose, and a Corsair were on my short list, but I could actually be quite tempted to try this bird m'self - after all I still have all the powertrain components from my Camel looking for a home.

2 Kw eh Scotty.... never did like an underpowered model did you

[Danny Fenton]

Hi Scott, I think you will be more than chuffed with it. The undercarriage is a bit flimsy but is still fine on mine.

Crikey 2kw!!! mine is nice on around 800 watts, I guess it depends how you want to fly it.

 

Are you going to do the full makeover?

 

We could have a whole squadron at this rate........

 

Cheers

Danny

[scott cuppello]

I am quite happy with the Canadian scheme to be honest, goes with my big Canadian F18! But I intend to scale it up.

 

2kw but with a four blade prop, the only way to get multi-blade props to really work is to over-power the model, I don't use the power available for anything other than climb rate, I try [emphasis on try!] to fly scale, and nothing lets down a warbird to me in this respect, more than being under-power for aerobatics.......squadron sounds good!

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

Hi Scott, welcome to the club (squadron ) You won't be disappointed. I know mine flies like a pussy cat and really looks the part in the air.  If you do use 2kW then take great care on takeoff, mine is prone to a 90deg turn to port just after clearing the ground. Mind you switching from castoring to fixed tailwheel has cured some of that.

Timbo - do it, you know you want one.

Chris

[scott cuppello]

90 deg turn?! I was going to change the tailwheel to be honest and add an arrestor hook.

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

Scott don't be too concerned about that. 

I think it illustrates my inexperience with large (to me) warbirds and the excessive torque from a large prop on an electric motor. 

In both cases (I've done it twice) I believe the plane was trying to rotate the opposite way to the prop (torque effect?) but while the wheels were in contact with the ground it couldn't. As soon as it lifted off, up went one wing and down went the other...  Ailerons weren't enough to control it, but cutting power certainly did and all was well.

Follow Danny's advice and open the throttle very slowly and everything is fine.

Chris