Is FASST really worth it?

[Will Pearse]

Having just returned to flying after only a few years, I find the world has changed and need to get some 2.4 gear.

I've read up a lot recently and have considered Spektrum, Taranis, Turnigy, Futaba and Hitec.

I only fly fixed wing, one with flaps & retracts & ailerons on separate channels so need 7 channels overall, no more.

 

My priority is reliability over features, but I realise there is a cost/benefit thing going on

So a few questions... realise this is a common theme..

 

1/ Is Futaba FASST clearly the most reliable?

2/ If you use Chinese Rx with FASST then presumably since these are not genuine FASST then you lose the FASST reliability advantage (if there ever was one)?

*** not to say other systems are not reliable, I'm thinking degrees ***

 

3/ Having said that HITEC seem to have a very good reputation for reliability also, so to cut to the chase, the new Flash 7 looks very good - what would I lose by getting one of those vs say an almost new Futaba 8FG Super? Can't think of anything myself unless the reliability difference is still there. In fact the Flash 7 looks very good indeed.

 

Many thanks

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Dave Hopkin]

In terms of overall reliability I dont think there is a great difference between any of the major brands - the most unreliable element is us and our installations!

So I think you should look at the ergonomics of the XT and see which one feels most natural - of course things like "I want sliders" may eliminate some XT's....

Cheap recievers, I use a mix (on Spektrum DX9) and to be honest have never has a incident that I would put down to the RX (though my thumbs would say different!)

[ken anderson.]

hello will...there have been numerous threads/posts about which radio brand is 'best' and really the answer is none.....any of the popular brands will do what you want with 99% reliability .....and at the end of the day its what you want(function's) ...myself I cant see the point of spending £100's ... if you intend to buy a model and fly circuits with the occasional loop/roll included...I used Futaba for 20 years+ and now am a Hitec fan....

ken Anderson...ne...1 ....... radio choice advice dept.

[Mark Hancock]

I agree with Ken.I have used Futaba all my life,and have seen other people using other brand with no problems,so is up to you. Have a look around and see what people are flying with and if you like it buy it. Most of the time people blame a brand when its their fingers that are at fault.

[GONZO]

From 1/1/2015 Futaba FASST will no longer be a legal protocol to use on the 2.4gHz ISM band for NEW equipement. It does not conform to the requirements of the new standard ETSI EN 300 328 v1.8.1. Old and existing equipement can continue to be used. So, it looks to me that buying a FASST set now would be buying into a dead end.

 

Edited By GONZO on 13/12/2014 12:05:05

Edited By GONZO on 13/12/2014 12:05:40

Edited By GONZO on 13/12/2014 12:06:22

[GONZO]

Tried to put a link in to the new standard but for some reason it would not play. So, if you want to read 85 pages of a standards document you will have to do a search.

[Fatscoleymo]

I used both Futaba and JR for 30+ years and both were fine. When I thought it was about time to move to 2.4gig I fitted a Frsky tx module to the JR and used a Frsky rx. to evaluate. I had nearly 2 years faultless flying with that. Never a glitch. Both tx module and rx were less than £20 each.

15 months ago I bought a Frsky Taranis tx for £140 which has proven to be a rock solid link to the Frsky receivers I'm using. Never any problem. 16 channel, s.port rx. for £25. Vario for £20. All work faultlessly.

Frsky products have proven to me to be every bit as good as Futaba and JR at a fraction of the cost. Taranis has as much versatility as almost anyone will ever need, yet at the same time the setup templates will allow less complex planes to be programmed very quickly with little effort.

Easily available from numerous suppliers, loads on information on line, very helpful, informative forums.

In my experience in both function and cost Taranis and Frsky are recommended.

Steve

[Cliff Bastow]

FASST, will no longer be legal? Does this mean I will not be able to buy new receivers to use with my Futaba system? I already have 16 models fitted with this system and do not want to have to upgrade them all again! Or have any new models on a new system.

[Dickw]

Any existing FASST transmitters you have will remain legal to use.

Receivers are not affected by the new regs unless they transmit also (e.g. telemetry), so FASST receivers should still be available.

New transmittres sold after 1/1/15 must comply with the new regs and I hear that the latest upgrade (V5) for the 14SG apparently will make it legal so they can still sell them. The upgrade is also available on line for existing T14SG:-

**LINK**

I have also heard that the some "compatible" brands of receiver can be intermittant when used with that latest upgrade so be careful.

Dick

[Cliff Bastow]

Ok Dick thanks, That helps clear the situation. Not so bad if I can still buy receivers.

The updates wont bother me as I only have a T7C.

[Will Pearse]

Wow everyone thanks for all the replies.

Well it looks like it's new Hitec Flash 7 for me...!

[..]

Posted by Dickw on 13/12/2014 13:11:22:

Any existing FASST transmitters you have will remain legal to use.

Receivers are not affected by the new regs unless they transmit also (e.g. telemetry), so FASST receivers should still be available.

New transmittres sold after 1/1/15 must comply with the new regs and I hear that the latest upgrade (V5) for the 14SG apparently will make it legal so they can still sell them. The upgrade is also available on line for existing T14SG:-

**LINK**

I have also heard that the some "compatible" brands of receiver can be intermittant when used with that latest upgrade so be careful.

Dick

Is Futaba FASSTest not the telemetry technology ?

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Dickw]

Posted by Justin K. on 13/12/2014 16:07:57:

Is Futaba FASSTest not the telemetry technology ?

Not a Futaba user myself (just have friends who are) so may be wrong, but I thought FASST was non telemetry and FASSTest was a newer system with telemetry.

My understanding is that "FASSTest" being a later system already complied with the new regs, but "FASST" didn't so needs an upgrade to the trasnsmission protocal to remain a saleable product.

Always willing to be corrected if I am wrong.

Dick

[GONZO]

Yes, but the transmission protocol is different to FASST. Anyhow comes the 1/1/2015 it, along with all others, will have to be changed to LBT(Listen Before Talk) along with all telemetry recievers(the're transmitters too) to comply with the new regs. If you have a existing Tx that does FASSTest then it probably has the facility to have the software updated. This is for NEW equipement. Although, if you susequently buy a new telemetry Rx that complies to the new regs then you may have to go back and change the software on an existing Tx for it to work reliably(all depends on how the manufacturers write the code etc.). Having altered your existing Tx to work the new Rx then you may have to re flash your existing Rx's for everthing to be consistent and compatible. All an uknown quatity at the moment. Time will tell.

As I've said, this for NEW equipement only. Existing and in use items are 'granfatherd' in. Including, as I understand it, those items in the supply chain from importer, distributor and shop.

AFAIK there is added latency introduced into the control link from Tx to plane when telemetry is employed. This will be increased when both the Tx and Rx have to LBT, possibly noticably so in a busy and noisey RF environment.

This only apllies to EU, the rest of the world continues as before. Dont you just love being in the EU!

[GONZO]

What I've read implies that only DSMX and the new ACCST from the new Hitec 9X are compliant.

Happy to be corrected.

[Chuck Plains]

This could be a useful page for you to check out

RC Model Reviews Hitec stuff

Bruce has lots of other reviews too.

[GONZO]

My understanding is that the newer Tx(14SG etc) implementation of the Fasst protocol is via a different 'chip set' than the older designs of Tx which Futaba claimed used a custom chip set exclusive to them. The older designs and chip sets are, from what I've read, not able to do the required LBT to comply with the new regs.

Those of you that have more recent designs of Tx/Rx on FASST using a newer chip set that can be reprogramed should be aware that there have been reports of problems with the use of compatable Rx (FrSky etc) after instaling the new version of FASST. Specifically the 14SG V5 software update for EU models . Futaba even issued a warning **LINK**

Happy to be corrected or recieve more info.

[Dickw]

Just checked on a German website for the compliance with the new regs.

It confirms that FASSTest and T-FHSS already comply with the new regs so these systems need no changes for post 1/1/15.

It also states that FASST and FHSS Transmitters sold post 1/1/15 will have been upgraded via software to make them compliant. (presume that is the same V5.0 upgrade also available for retro install in existing Tx). The upgraded Tx will continue to work with existing Futaba FASST and FHSS receivers (but not necessarily other brand compatibles)

Dick

[Cuban8]

Posted by GONZO on 13/12/2014 17:14:12:

This only apllies to EU, the rest of the world continues as before. Dont you just love being in the EU!

That will be a no from me!

[Frank Skilbeck]

Posted by GONZO on 13/12/2014 17:14:12:

This only apllies to EU, the rest of the world continues as before. Dont you just love being in the EU!

It sounds like a pain, but this new standard applies to all 2.4 transmitting equipment and ensures that they don't interfere with each other, so you could say we are being protected from other 2.4 transmitting devices too, and as everything from your phone to washing machine becomes 2.4 enabled the spectrum will be getting busier and busier.. From what I understand it's all down to the duty cycle too and the FASST used a duty cycle above the threshold and hence has to listen before transmitting, the FHSS used by many others is below the threshold and therefore already compliant.

[Jack Banner]

This is terrible news for me.

I have a Futaba 12FG using a TM-14 module for 2.4GHZ on FASST. If that wasn't enough I have also 'standardised' on the FrSky FASST compatible receivers.

So it looks like I will need to either buy a new transmitter within 12-18 months (as FrSky will likely stop making FASST receivers sooner rather than later) or buy a lot of the FrSky receivers now to cover me for additions and attrition, which is investing in a dead technology.

Not ideal.

[..]

Posted by Dickw on 13/12/2014 17:46:53:

Just checked on a German website for the compliance with the new regs.

It confirms that FASSTest and T-FHSS already comply with the new regs so these systems need no changes for post 1/1/15.

It also states that FASST and FHSS Transmitters sold post 1/1/15 will have been upgraded via software to make them compliant. (presume that is the same V5.0 upgrade also available for retro install in existing Tx). The upgraded Tx will continue to work with existing Futaba FASST and FHSS receivers (but not necessarily other brand compatibles)

Dick

 

Well done Dick , good digging.

 

In theory then an unupdated 14SG could be worth more than a new one. 

Edited By Justin K. on 14/12/2014 10:24:12

[GONZO]

Frank S

FASST duty cycle 25% new regs limit 10% thus does not conform.

Above 10mW transmitted power must LBT. As FHSS is 100mW, as are all EU RC Tx, then must LBT and is not currently complient.

With an ever busy 2.4gHz ISM band my concern is that the newer sytems could be put at a disadvantage listening before transmitting to the extent that users may notice slowed response as data is lost possibly causing the Rx to fall into fail safe. As this spec will be slanted more towards the consumer electronics I wonder if this has been considered.

Jack B

Like you I'm a 12FG user plus TM-8 and RASST-12 modules plus FrSky compatibles. But, I've got back ups for both modules as these are the items that may/will be hard to get in the future. I would think that the FrSky Rx will continue to be available as the rest of the world will still be on the old 2.4gHz ISM regs and there will still be a large market for them.

The old FASST protocol (non LBT and high duty cycle) can still be used into the future. The term is 'grandfathering in' existing/old equipement. I for one will continue using my 12FG and TM-8 on the old FASST protocol (36 channels across the whole band and v/widely spread) as it will be legal to do so. I feel, maybe incorrectly, that I will be at an advantage not having to LBT whilst newer sytems will be giving way to my transmissions as they will have to LBT.