scott finnie Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Ok so i'd like to start a little topic/debate... When i started flying which wasn't that long ago well 21 years ago i was handed a bright fluorescent pink kyosho trainer 40 with a 25 onboard!!! And a Futaba skysport 6A . I was on buddy box and learning to fly the real way with someone standing close (wind brake) and telling me the small inputs to make to correct minor issues developing, i loved going to my flying lessons as a young child in charge of a 1.8m span ic aircraft. Yet was not allowed to man handle my ic engine till i was 14 at the time and trust me the 7 years up till that point i'd learn't a lot. Now many aircraft on. Some of which i still own! I'm seeing this horrible trainer scheme come out of a simple "Hit the Button" and recover !!??? How will anyone learn what they've done wrong with a button.... Nothing! they will learn. They will simply have false hope that they can fly, perform loops, rolls whatever then bang when they buy there next aircraft and it thumps into the ground because they had never learn't to fly properly and can't recover from even a mild bit of discomfort without a simple push button recovery. Now yes this is great news for a beginner but it takes the skill out of flying and building an aircraft you have respect for. Most of my aircraft it is't the case of i'll order a new epo part for £5.99 , its the case of sadness and a few months in the workshop. So are there any real trainers left out there? What are the real options of getting airborne with something that teaches you the real basics rather than bank angle control nonsense? What aircraft are out there now artf, rtf, pnp, bnf ect that are suitable for a novice hopefully encouraged to learn to fly through a club. I don't discourage learning yourself to fly by any means though i do warn it's Horizon Hobby Duet territory and a field without houses , people and trees! Our local Model shops could come in on this to as well as clubs to offer free membership to rtf buyers. Its much less a loss of £20 a year membership with some hope and encouragement to a house window , car or person being injured. RC has come on so far in the last year it's pretty scary, before you know it there could be rich kids out there with gps stabilised turbine heli's buzzing the fields. People need to learn the correct way, but to learn... we need a better list of the better aircraft out there to learn on. Yes foam is great but with self righting and panic button,,, is this the way forward? Scott Edited By scott finnie on 03/02/2015 19:31:50 Edited By scott finnie on 03/02/2015 19:33:38 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_B Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I wish I'd had a 'panic button' and flight simulator back in the 70's. My route to successful model flying would have undoubtedly been so much quicker, and probably resulted in a lot less wrecked airframes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Mat Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Well my 2 pence worth... I learnt to fly on an electric wot 4... all the advice I received was not to bother with a proper trainer and learn to fly with the WOT 4. All I can say is, that I enjoyed every bit of it, never crashed it (if you don't include ripping the undercarriage off in long grass) and have moved on to a low wing p51 warbird with no real issues. The big disclaimer is that I learnt with a buddy box lead, attached to an incredibly skilled pilot (known on here as MR B i think). After about 8 batteries ( 40 - 50 minutes total flying time) he suggested I went solo and I've never looked back. I think if I'd have bought a high dihedral trainer, I'd probably be bored by now and looking for another plane, whereas I have just tired the WOT 4 with a 4 cell battery and that just put a huge smile on my face! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 There are some great trainers out there, Wot Trainer, Seagull Arising Star, Tutor 40 ,Vmar Hornet, to name a few. Then there are some dedicated electric ones, Pioneer , for example. I had some great fun with my Arising Star converted to a tail dragger with a .46 2t and the rates turned up to 11. What ever you want/ need there is something out there...the choice is vast nowadays and reasonably priced thanks to the far east factories. Trainers are almost solely a one trick pony but that's the design and the purpose of them. Stil, l they can be fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott finnie Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 The only crash i ever had through buddy box was a stray sheep on a dead stick landing, other than that it was a few bumpy landings, i also learned a heap of knowledge from the past members of crosswinds ect and also safety. Safety is a very big part of my flying having learn't a lot from starting a aerial photography business before the drone boom with a state of the art Droidworx quad and loosing out when everyone laughed at the toy with a camera on the bottom, now away from that and working with a local model shop, i was too aware of these self flying gizmos causing huge safety concerns int the near future which is now. Ian the Wot 4 is a masterpiece , is it the wood or foam version? both are excellent for every form of flying. Bill, I wish i had a simulator reset ect and panic button but a voice from an experienced flyer told me how to correct my wrong doings and fly happily out of my issues. A sim doesn't make you're fingers go cold and eyes water with the wind. Also you'll never get that true feeling of what's going on around you , cars in the distance , birds tweeting, all the little things that can distract you Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott finnie Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Cymaz , the Arising Star certainly can be fun, takes you from complete sloppy novice to pretty impressive maneuvers quickly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Mat Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Scott, it's the wood version... it was suggested that the extra weight might make it better in the wind, which it definitely is... one day when I was flying, another member turned up with a foamy WOT 4 and his kept getting blown onto it's back before it even took off!! Just to be clear, the only damage that happened to my electric WOT 4 was due to my lack of experience, and was not while I was connected via the buddy box! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dunning Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Although I am not a large manufacturer, I produce a trainer called the Buddy. Over several years, I have produced nearly 40 examples and it is used by both the Retford and Teeside clubs as their 'club' trainer. Indeed, a second is on the way for the Retford club. The current one at Retford had a signal loss and flew away. This was traced four days later to a farmer, 27 miles from the site, having landed perfectly and suffering no damage. New switch and battery and away it went. Below are a few pics of three examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott finnie Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Hi Steve they look great, any tri undercarriage? Are they 40 size? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I wold learn with a tail dragger if you can. Most planes after a trainer will be a T/D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dunning Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 The idea behind the tail-wheel design was due to the fact that nose-legs suffer on a trainer, damaging the firewall leading to a major repair. The design utilises a semi symmetrical wing so as to handle windy conditions and a longer tail moment than normal to aid easy handling. Engines 40 to 55 (52 four stroke), 5 servos, balsa covered foam wings, traditional fuselage build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bott - Moderator Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Where are all the trainers? In most clubs I'd say, certainly all the ones I visit. Where I instruct, there's a vibrant mix of member owned and club owned trainers, with an equal split between electric and I/C. There always seems to be new members joining up and apart from a few dips in numbers, just about enough people happy to do the instructing, and finding it very rewarding. If anyone asks here on the forum, the advice is always the same - find yourself a club, go see what they have and what they recommend, before you buy anything at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott finnie Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 That seems to be the issue up here Chris is a lack of good model shops, We have well 2 one which sells mostly doll's houses now and one which is kites and multicopters, everyone who wants to learn has to go online and with clubs pushing them away are buying aircraft that are simply not the way forward. There's a buzzing community spirit in England but quiet and distant in Scotland. The budding model shops are now toy shops and unwilling to help with the slightest request unless its DJI . I traveled from Edinburgh to Lancaster to buy £60 worth of rc equipment that i wanted to see before i bought. My lhs wasn't willing to source a prop for me and says it was impossible. Only for me to bump into a sales rep in England who said that he supplies to my lhs. I used to be able to pick up model fuel and compare hinges id taken off my aircraft with new ones at my local but not now. Yes the clubs in England may have a lot of trainers but you'd be lucky to point out one between the quads in scotland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott finnie Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Yes Steve indeed the tail dragger was , i was thinking for myself to fly, all my aircraft are tail draggers and i fancy something different again. Tbh i wish i learnt to fly on my 1/3 cub as its the simplest most relaxed aircraft i've ever flown, no nasty surprises and the smoothest engine till my prop failure . Though glided in for a perfect un-hurried landing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Jones Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Last year we had a need in our club to run some training days for our new and less experienced members. We needed trainer aircraft that could be flown all day long time and time again. It soon became apparent that the only practical way of doing this was by using club training models - the likes of glow engined Boomerang and Tutor 40. This allowed us to keep the models airborne and get plenty of airtime with the trainees. It was very successful and we are likely to be doing the same again this year. As for trike undercarriages, don't get me started, apart from a few exceptions which do not include the Boomerang & T40 there is nothing to fear from them and no reason why the noseleg should take punishment. An instructor should be able to see a bad landing coming and abort it. The trainee should not be making solo landings until he has demonstrated that he can do so without landing on the nose. A full size trainee wouldn't be allowed to do it and I apply that same rule to trainees. Only flying tail draggers does give access to many models but flying trikes too gives an even wider choice. So yes Scott real trainers are still about and they are worth having because, as I mentioned here, after learning to fly they can have many more uses other than training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Telemaster anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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