Poppy the Frenchy Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Hi all, I need help with electric set up, I've jot a clue as I used to be an IC bloke for 30 years. I'm refurbing an original Mercury matador and a scaled down version of a Mercury Galahad of 40", I want go electric with them but not a clue on motors or speed controllers and batteries, agh! Can you help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 General rule of thumb is you need 100 Watts per Pound weight, but something like a Matador could be as low as 80W/lb I would think a motor of around 800kv running on a 3S would be in the ball park, but there will probably be someone on here who has electrified a Matador and can answer better The ESC you need to make sure that it can handle at lest 10% more than max load current Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy the Frenchy Posted January 23, 2016 Author Share Posted January 23, 2016 Thankyou Dave, I'll look into the weight of it, but does that inlcude the radio etc as part if the weight or just the airframe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 All up weight..... radio, lipo, servos the lot Edited By Dave Hopkin on 23/01/2016 19:17:47 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy the Frenchy Posted January 23, 2016 Author Share Posted January 23, 2016 I've just weighed it, it's 17oz without lipo, I dont have lips yet., many thanks For the info, I'll be busy looking for deals this evening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I have a Veron Deacon which, at 57" span, is a bit bigger than the Matador but has the same power requirements. Deacon power train data is : motor weight 57g, 1050kv, 3s 1300 lipo, 8x4 APC prop, an 18A ESC. At WOT 10.3A, 118W, 9900rpm. Model weighs 27oz RTF - so that's 70W/lb. That has proved bags of power since it's first flight in 2009, the model takes off without problem from our grass strip with a good rate of climb, it can be looped & rolled with ease. Most of the time it fown at under 1/2 throttle. BTW the power is about equal to a good 1.5cc diesel or 09 glow. e.g. an AM10 or Enya 09. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy the Frenchy Posted January 23, 2016 Author Share Posted January 23, 2016 Hey PatMc that's great news, I've been looking for suppliers and don't know which will give me best value for money as the matador won't be used often, so don't want to spend loads on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Watkins Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Hi Buffy Look up the Emax BL2210/25 950kv, and its equivalents is in your ballpark, And match this to an ESC that you may look at both Lipo set ups in 2s and 3s configuration. If weight becomes an issue, then at least a good 2s will give you a chance If you need more balast, then make the balast a 3s battery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Watkins Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Your model is 17ozs The 27oz example is a good guide, but at these small sizes, is more than 50% heavier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Denis, there's no difference in weight between a 2s & a 3s setup for the same duration & power requirements. However a 2s would need a higher current ESC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 If you type Matador into the search box a few threads come up..... Chris Botts Matty had power pods for both diesel & electric power... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Damms Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Hi, Buffy Mines powered by an emax2812 145w motor using 1300mah 3s lipos it's more than ample to power it. I covered mine in litespan if you do a search in the keyword box for matador you'll see at least mine and Chris Botts build blogs. I increased the rudder size a little and would also recommend increasing the elevator size by a small amount. I needed down and right thrust plus 20grammes of lead in the nose. I found litespan a pig to use and if I ever recover her it will be in solartex dispite it's weight. Good luck. Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bott - Moderator Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 See page 5 of my thread. It looks like I have a total of 100watts in mine, and it flies very nicely. Don't over power it. It's designed to pootle around quite gently. Too much power exposes some undesirable tendencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Watkins Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Sorry chaps, let me explain my lightweight flys on both 2s and 3s , calm abd breezy settings loi The 1000mah 2s weights 57 grm The 1000mah 3s weighs 101grm So I stuck my neck out and assumed that 3 rectangular containers of chemicals, weighed more than the same size and make of assembly made up of 2 rectangular ontainers of chemicals Conversely, if you had 5 house bricks, and put 2, on the end of a seesaw, and 3 on the other end of the seesaw, the end with the 2 house bricks would rise Or if say you had 5 identical buses, and you put 2 buses................... . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy the Frenchy Posted January 23, 2016 Author Share Posted January 23, 2016 Many thanks lads, it's at 17oz without covering but the wing is in solartex but it's original from the 70's and the wing is so straight I thought I would leave and solar film over it the fuselage has been stripped due to a soggy deisel front end, rebuilt and will be solar filmed, I've got a 30mm elevator and a 30mm rudder and was hoping that should be sufficient. Chosen film over tissue or lite span as I want silver wings/tail plane and sky blue fuselage, I used to have on a Galahad back in the 80's and it looked great. I will be using you generous information guys to my best achievements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Posted by Denis Watkins on 23/01/2016 21:14:18: Sorry chaps, let me explain my lightweight flys on both 2s and 3s , calm abd breezy settings loi The 1000mah 2s weights 57 grm The 1000mah 3s weighs 101grm So I stuck my neck out and assumed that 3 rectangular containers of chemicals, weighed more than the same size and make of assembly made up of 2 rectangular ontainers of chemicals Conversely, if you had 5 house bricks, and put 2, on the end of a seesaw, and 3 on the other end of the seesaw, the end with the 2 house bricks would rise Or if say you had 5 identical buses, and you put 2 buses................... . You're not comparing like with like. Taking 1s as 3.7v - 1000mAH 2s has the energy capacity of 1Watt hour whilst 1000mAH 3s has the capacity of 1.5Watt hour. Following on from that it would need 1500mAH 2s to equal energy capacity of 1000mAH 3s. i.e. they would both weigh aproximately the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Edited to correct error : You're not comparing like with like. Taking 1s as 3.7v - 1000mAH 2s has the energy capacity of 7.4 Watt hours whilst 1000mAH 3s has the capacity of 11.1 Watt hours. Following on from that it would need 1500mAH 2s to equal energy capacity of 1000mAH 3s. i.e. they would both weigh aproximately the same for 11.1 WHr. Edited By PatMc on 24/01/2016 09:04:39 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Etheridge 1 Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 I did go through the same exercise a couple of years ago on an old Matador that eventually was successful and it was covered on this website. The plane is now stuck in my loft and perhaps my next move is to fit an OS 10 as it has flown with a brushed geared motor, a brushless motor and a PAW 1.5. I can't remember the brushless motor details at present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Mikes thread is here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Brock Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 I am about to start building a Matador. It will be a blast from the past as it was the first r/c model I built and flew in 1966, I am no w 66 how time flies.I will be fitting an electric motor with rudder, elevator and I would like people's thoughts on adding ailerons. I realise ailerons are not in the spirit of the Matador however neither are electric motors or elevators and proportional control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Etheridge 1 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I think you should fit ailerons to extend the experiments further with the Matador. If you felt it necessary you could also make some non-aileron wings. I have it in mind to make up some aileron wings to suit both of my Junior 60's and my Super 60. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 IMO the Matador is a model that wouldn't benefit from ailerons. The model is easy to roll on R E only, the mods needed to the wing structure to take ailerons make them not worth the bother. If you want a small model with ailerons best pick something with them already designed in or easier to mod for them - the DB Tyro for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Hi Brock, as I am sure you appreciate the Matador, like most vintage rudder/elevator models, has a lot of dihedral. If you plan to fit ailerons you will need to to reduce this significantly or you will find that they will introduce some adverse handling, which will spoil your fun. Personally I would leave it as it is apart from your electric conversion of course. Good luck. Edited By Piers Bowlan on 12/02/2017 15:40:15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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