Leslie Crane 1 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Hi guys I have just bought a Puppeteer kit and am proposing to build as an electric model. Before starting I wondered if anyone has photos of a conversion, in particular where to place batteries and place the shelf or box, how and where you have made the hatch and any of the motor mount. Any advice would also be appreciated. Not sensible to re-invent the wheel if there is already a working solution out there. Many thanks in advance Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Batteries as far forward as possible. I have a four stroke in mine and still added a healthy load of lead. As you know it's a short nose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy48 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I'm half way through a build, only taken a year so far. The warped liteply was sooo tedious. The motor is mounted in a dummy radial. You can barely see it. The front of mine hinges down, with the motor and ESC in, which leaves a nice large slot the size of a car battery. As Cymaz says all the advice is plenty of weight up front needed so not too worried about extra weight there. I have also split it behind the cockpit so that the wings can stay permanently attached together with rigging, and still go in the car. I'll do a photography shoot tomorrow and stick some on here for you. - It might encourage me to finish it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.B. Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I built a battery box tight behind the fire wall with a hatch in the top of the fus. Two 3200 3 cells slide in verticaly. The motor just bolts to the fire wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Germany Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Built mine with removable motor mount and detachable rear fuselage, this way it fits into the car with the wings fully rigged and only takes a couple of minutes to assemble at the field. Using 2 x 4S 2400 lipo's in parallel mounted upright just behind the firewall. Very little noseweight needed. If you're interested I'll post some photos with the full power train details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leslie Crane 1 Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 Hi everyone, thanks for input so far. Hadn't thought of vertical batteries or removable/hinged front so already a lot to think about. Any photos would really be appreciated. What motors/props have you used. I am assuming about 550kv and 16" prop by, say. 6 or 8. Will also chat to 4 Max who have supplied all my power trains for the last few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy48 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy48 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy48 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Don't go by the prop size, I've yet to test it all out. There is space in the front for a very large battery if needed, it sits on a tray (not shown) that simply slides in place. Both the front and the back are held in place by two allen bolts each. The dummy engine is the Le Rhone engine from Williams Bros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leslie Crane 1 Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 Andy the hinged cowl looks superb. How do you propose to fasten the top to the main fuselage. I cant see any bolt or screw and what motor are you using. Your method certainly leaves a huge battery space. I don't think I can match the quality of your work but I like the hinge solution. Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy48 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 The top is not fastened, there are two lugs either side of the motor for the allen bolts to screw into. I strengthened the fuselage at each side to take the bolts, you can just see the hole in the second photo. I then plan to cover the appropriate parts of the fus with litho plate, and make a couple of small hatches to get at the bolts. The real Pup did actually have a hatch at one side in just the right place. Notice I have avoided having to put any screws in the cowl. It is easily removed however, you can see three countersunk screws in the motor plate. The motor is a fairly chunky affair a Hobbyking NTM 1300W, 650Kv - more than enough power, and it will take a 5S battery. It draws about 36a on a 13x7 prop with a 4S battery - half its max current. It can always be powered down by varying the voltage or by using a curve on the throttle channel of the tx. I prefer models to have more power than needed, you don't have to fly with the throttle fully open all the time. I should point out the hinge is not designed to take any real stress in flight, the two mounting bolts hold the motor plate in place. I might add a couple of dowel pegs also at some time. Of course you can achieve the same quality, if not better. Edited By Andy48 on 31/01/2016 22:41:24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leslie Crane 1 Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 Thanks Andy that's interesting. My 55" Tiger Moth has a 4Max 770kv swinging a 12x6 prop on a 4s 4000. Has so far only flown once as only just finished but after a 6 min (or so) flight at only half throttle it had 40% left so I think your set sounds just right as the SE5 is slightly heavier than the Moth. Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leslie Crane 1 Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 Why did I say Se5!! The puppeteer is significantly heavier than the moth. Perhaps it is because last week I bought an electric SE5 with a power 46 and a 14x6 prop already installed. For info I rang 4Max today and they suggested an 800kv with a 14x7 prop and 60amp ESC running on a 4s battery. Took the plunge this pm and laminated the front fuselage formers with aliphatic. As the Chinese say, every journey starts with the first step. Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Germany Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Hi Leslie, Some photos of my Puppeteer attached. My building is not as tidy as Andy48's. Motor is Overlander Thumper 4260-06 (500kv) running on 2 x 4S 2200 lipo's in parallel. Prop is currently 15 x 8 but I think I might need to up the pitch as it struggles to pull vertical for stall turns and loops. Level flight is very scale like, as slow as you like. The 2 lipo's sit horizontally and pass through the bulkhead into a box that ends just behind the cowl front. an 8 minute flight leaves 27% capacity. Model weighs 8lb ready to fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leslie Crane 1 Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 Hi David many thanks for the photos, it is really interesting to see a top hatch conversion. If you have a single 4s 4000 you may get a slightly better performance. 4 Max advised against running batteries in parallel as if not in sync as far as cell charges are concerned, 1 battery pulls the other down performance wise thus losing you power. Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyD Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 some great pups,the first plane i ever built,youve got me wanting to build another but i got to many projects on the go already,great idea splitting the fuz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lighten Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 David, You have just opened up a whole new world of double bay biplanes for me with that method of split fuselage and servo mounting, so simple! Why didn't I think of it! Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Germany Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Have to be honest here folks, I didn't think of the idea. I found it on t'internet some time ago and tweaked it to suit my needs. Leslie, I take your point about the single lipo, but when I was building the Pup I couldn't find a reasonably priced 4000+ pack to fit, and I also had a couple of sets of matched 2200's to hand. I balance charge after every flight and so far the cells have allways dropped to the same voltages. If I have to replace the packs I will see if I can find a 4000+ that will fit. As an aside I had intended to fit a MrRCSound unit to the Pup which would be transferable to the Bleriot XI I'm currently building. At the moment I cannot justify the cost really, Has anyone else considered this ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Someone on RCMF a few years ago had built a Puppeteer that split the fuselage behind the wings and I thought then that it was a good idea. I have a Puppeteer I finished after buying it part built but it rarely gets flown simply because it's such a pain to put together at the field and at 60" ws is too big to transport in one piece. If I were building another that's what I'd do - and it would be electric. Both the Flair Puppeteer and the SE5a need a lot of extra weight in the front with 4 stroke glows so with electric motors being so much lighter then just get as much weight as possible up front and as much as possible as useful - ie batteries. I just can't remember his name but I recall he bought a yacht ( a proper one with sails!) and more or less stopped aeromodelling but IIRC his first name was Jonathon. Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy48 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Posted by Ken Lighten on 02/02/2016 09:00:35: David, You have just opened up a whole new world of double bay biplanes for me with that method of split fuselage and servo mounting, so simple! Why didn't I think of it! Ken If you look at my photos, I have a single multipole connector which automatically mates when the fuselage is assembled. I plan on using metal geared micro servos in the rear of the fuselage. Modern micro servos are almost as powerful as full sized servos yet only a quarter of the weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lighten Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Hi Andy, yeah, I did see your method to, both have merits of ease of use and suit different servo types, I have a plethora of standard size servos hence David's method struck a chord as C of G can be maintained better with this size, now, how to make that joint in the fuselage invisible???? 😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Germany Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I'll try and get a photo of the assembled model posted, the join is only really noticable close-up and certainly not noticable on the strip or in the air, we are talking semi-scale here after all. I had originally thought of using a colour scheme where there would be different colours either side of the join to try and disguise it, but I don't think that would have improved it. The dark matt Solartex helps because there are no reflections bouncing off the joints edges. Andy, I like your dummy engine, is it the genuine Flair product ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy48 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 No it is the Williams Bros Le Rhone. Flair might sell it but I ended up getting it from the US. (check out Amazon) As for joins, there is a "natural" sort of join on the real thing behind the cockpit. Edited By Andy48 on 03/02/2016 17:13:16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leslie Crane 1 Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 after considering all suggestions I made a fully circular firewall that exactly fits the cowl and bolted the motor to that and then fixed the firewall to the front formers with bolts and blind nuts so that it is removable if I need to get to the motor or ESC which is also inside the cowl. I have then made battery a top entry between the cowl and the first cabane strut via a removable hatch and with a battery tray attached to the front former just above the protruding rear motor shaft sloping rearwards and downwards and supported on the next former back. Tight 'ish but it works fine on the bench - proof of the pudding still to come but it looks neat! Thanks for all the help guys. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Great to see so many splitting their Pupeteers behind the cockpit I did this a few years back, 2009. I shortened the nose by over 2" and lengthened the undercarriage to make it a bit more scale like. It was originally a smashed wreck and I restored and converted it to electric. Build blog is on here I can't remember the exact prop I used, but I think it was a 17 x 10 at very very low revs on A123 The join is not really noticeable Cheers Danny Edited By Danny Fenton on 13/02/2016 22:56:04 Edited By Danny Fenton on 13/02/2016 23:12:34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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