Electric Helicoptors

[kam24]

I"m new to flying helicoptors after flying planks for a few years. Now in the process of building a Thunder Tiger Mini Titan.
This is around the same size as the TRex.
It would be great to have a UK forum so beginners like myself could exchange help and advice in what I"m finding to be a Fun but Challanging hobby!

[kam24]

Helicoptors Anyone??

[shades]

Hi Kami-Kev,
I purchassed an Esky Lama at Christmas. I've been flying fixed wing for 3 years or so on and off. I'm not particularly good but fansied a change with not too much challenge. I wouldn't say I've totally mastered the Lama but I can fly it from room to room in my house and have explored it's narrow flight envelope. The thing is, how much more difficult is it to fly a "proper" heli model? Does flying a contra rotating type help to progress on to a real one, or does it lull you into a false sense of security. Good luck with your Thunder Tiger though.

[kam24]

Well I have built my mini T and very enjoyable it was too! A very well made kit with excellent instructions.
As I am new to helis I have set it up and programmed the radio to the best of my limited ability and then I think wisely taken it back to the model shop where I brought it for a proper check over by the experts!!
They will call me when its ready, talk though any changes they had to make and then take me outside the back of the shop and fly it around a little bit so giving me a bit of instruction too, All for free. Now thats NOT a service that you get from the online shops!
They also run the local heli club too which is handy.
Feeling very excited an cant wait! lol.

Shades, It can help to some extent learnig where the controls are ,I was recommended to get one myself but I for my sins wanted a "proper" heli. May have been a mistake, time will tell lol A normal heli ie NOT contra rotating is alot harder to fly cause it just wants to fall out of the sky all the time and so needs constant input on the radio to keep it in the air whereas some contra rotating helis can almost hover on ther own. The draw back is that they do not really fly forward with any speed because they are too stable. Have a look at the Mini Titan, it is more stable than the T Rex and the parts for it are cheap cause if you get one, you will crash. I know am gonna!

[Stephen Harrison]

I have being flying for just over a year and have a century hummingbird to play with and it flies fantastic. i have had many hours of fun and gained a lot of experience from flying it. i have flown these counter rotating helicopters - Esky lima, and the twister medivac. these are ideal for beginners and great fun as they required little experience and you are flying in a matter of 15 mins of practice - great fun and spares are avaliable - I went through 2 main rotor blade sets, 3 tail booms and one tail rotor.

[kam24]

Wow I hope my spare parts list is gonna be that small! lmao. Do you still fly planes as well?

[shades]

Yes, I agree with both of you. The Lama does indeed more or less hover itself, although if you read the lama forum you will see that people with no R/C experience can't even fly a Lama, so it's far from fool proof. But as you say, the main restriction is, it is not keen on flying forward at any speed. I have increased the throw on the servos, but if you try to input a turn, even a gentle one, at much speed, it will just "drop off" and hit the ground, with no warning. It took me a couple of crashes to realise that I had reached it's limit, and not mine. Still great fun though. And yes, you will crash, otherwise you are not exploring your potential.

[kam24]

have you tried adding a little bit of weight to the nose of your heli? just a thought but it may give you a bit more forward action. Just something I have seen on other forums but it may be worth a try. I do think that those lamas look like great fun indoors though!

[shades]

I am lucky enough to own several commercial sized green houses so I can always practice when I want to. If you push the lama hard enough forward you can get full forward stick and then keep it going using throttle only. But when you reach the critical speed it just looses all lift and crashes to the floor. The trick is to know when you are about to reach that speed. A couple of times I have hit the brakes so hard that I've had a blade strike between the two rotors in mid air. Interestingly enough, my mate has just stepped up from a lama to a Esky Honeybee King. So I will soon know the answer to my original question.

[Daniel Seabrook]

I recently accquired a Twister CP V2 and have only just mastered hovering with it. After flying both this (conventional single blade) and my cousin's Twister Bell 47 (contra-rotating) I would have to say that the contra-rotating types are much easier to hover but once you get used to the constant stick inputs that you have to make on the single blade then it's really no harder as such. I've not had to buy any spares as yet but think a set of new blades are in order due to clipping of walls etc and the carbon fibre is starting to fray. Good luck to both of you.

[kam24]

Well I picked my heli up today and was happy to be told that all it needed was some minor trimming before it hovered nicely and tracked perfectly. Now as this is my first ever heli I put it down to good instructions and the fantastic help I have had from you guys.
And talk about luck, listen to this. When I asked about training gear my local shop only sells 30 size and larger but they said all I needed was a bit of carban rod and if I looked outside the shop in the road some one had dumped a bag full of childrens play balls all over the road! Thought they were winding me up but there they were, the perfect size and weight for my T gear! well chuffed.
Gonna start practicing tomorrow!!

[kam24]

Did my first battery this morning and learned a little bit of tail control as per "Radds School of Rotary Flight" A web site designed to help teach you the black art of heli flying lol. I can see where this helps cause if I had taken off 1st time I would of crashed bigtime! While controlling the yaw I found myself looking at the tail too much and wondered why it was moving in the opposite direction to my stick inputs. Doh! gave my self a slap for that one! I gotta lot to learn me thinks but Im loving it! Gonna do a second batt as soon as our friends have gone home. (dont want spectators!)

[shades]

Well done Kamakazikev, keep up the efforts. It will reward you in the end. Further to my mate moving up to a Esky Honeybee King. Well he is finding it really difficult making the transition from a contra rotating type. I had a go and found that the experience with the lama certainly helps with control inputs but a real helio is massivly more difficult. My mate has already crashed a bit. I think it would benefit from some trimming and setting up by an expert. My experience on my flight simm was incredibly close to the real thing. "£$%^ difficult!!! I think I will stick with fixed wing for the time being. Lol!!

[kam24]

Thanks Shades! Trying to fly a heli that has not been set up just right is nigh on impossible. I know that the Esky range of helis although for the most part ARTF are not set up for flight very well from the factorys and need an proper set up by someone who knows there stuff. This is very important not only from a saftey thing but I would not want your friend to be put off by repeated crashes! I would also recommend Radds School of rotory flight as a way of getting started. Theres far to many broken helis hidden in peoples lofts and garages already! Has your friend got a good Heading Hold Gyro?? They certainly take some of the work load away by taking control of the tail.

[shades]

The gyro question is a good one. The Honey Bee comes with a gyro fitted as standard, as I think most modern heilos do. But I think it comes with a tail hold gyro, as it mentions something in the instructions about an optional Heading Hold gyro. Which is the best to have and why?

[GrumpyGnome]

Hi shades,

there are basically two types of gyro - yaw rate and heading hold. Yaw rate gyros are cheaper and slow down the yaw rate of the tail........... heading hold locks the tail in place until you give a command. (Hugely over simplified !)

HH are fantastic things but, IMHO, aren't necessary for learning or for basic manoevres; they make life simpler but aren't essential. For 3D though, they are !

Re the ease of flying, from easiest to hardest, I've found:

Contra rotating
large ic (50+)
smaller ic (30 size)
small electric (Eolo size)
mini electric (Twister/TRex/Titan)
micro electric
any fp machine.

Others may argue about fp being the hardest !

Best advice is to join a club. Makes learning so much easier - I wish I'd done it.

GG

[kam24]

I stand by my comments by repeating that a heading hold gyro is a must have for a newbie as you have less to think about less chance of smashing your heli up and less chance of being put off flying your heli in the first place to due to being scared of breaking it!
It will hold the tail in one place while you learn the other controls.
Helis are by there nature very fragile and all they want to do is fall outta the sky and when they do they break. The mini titan has been compared to be as stable as a 30 size heli but due to its smaller size parts are cheaper

[kam24]

Did my first ever hover in the kitchen last night, only about 2" off the floor but it was good to get a feel of the controls. She was pretty stable seeing as she was in the ground effect and inside as well. I cant wait to get outside I just need this blo@dy rain to stop!!!

[kam24]

Well I ve been learning for a while now and I can tail in hover any thing upto about 50 feet high and keep it pretty much still, Yipee!! lol Now am learning how to hover side in (with both the left side facing me an the right........well you get the idea) I have had a few smashes, The best of which was when I crashed into my house!! Blame the wind for that one combined with stupid thumbs! Hehe ( by the way I pinch the sticks between finger and thumb as I find this gives me better control) Thought I would list the stuff I use as I think this is a good setup for a newbie.

Mini Titan Heli kit with B"less motor and ESC

Raddix CF Main blades

Futaba GY 401 Gyro

Hitec HS65MB Servos (3 for the cyclics)

Ace C0915 Servo on the tail 0.009secs!

Flight Power 2170 Li Po Batterys

E Station 301 Charger

V-Balance (Flight Power)

Power supply

Futaba FF7 Radio

I get 9min 30 sec flight time and put back 75% into the battery which is well within its safe limit, When I move into forward flight I expect this to go down a little, maybe about 8mins. But after flying that long with a Heli, Trust me you need a break!! Let the nerves settle a little.

Have not spent much on spares as there cheap, landing skids are £3.99, Tail fin £1.50 and there is always good stock in my LHS. Its always worth checking that you can get spares easily for what ever you go for.
Anyway Happy Flying and I will be back soon.

[Brendan]

You should see your flight times improve when in FF. The rotor disc generates more lift that in the hover and you should need fractionally less power to maintain the same height.
If you have the hover cracked, try some gentle figure of 8s, they really help with orientation of the heli and provide the next step towards full forward flight - very rewarding.

[kam24]

Thanks Brendan! Good advice, I have been flying some slow figure of 8s and it feels great to actually get moving on abit and easier then I thought it would be. My heli looks cool flying about rather than just hovering. Nice one for the push in the right direction!

[Brendan]

No problem - try the inverted pie dish next!!

You never stop learning - I was out last weekend, lifted into the hover (nose in) gust of wind got under the rotor disc and I correected with the wrong cyclic! result - £60 worth of spares and another lesson learnt. I knew that I wasn't fully confident with nose in, but I thought I was good enough to recover from such a situation! Have to swallow my pride and put the chicken sticks back on and go back to practicing my nose in.

[Andrew Kirby]

Hi, I thought this page was about Helis not wasting money on artf jap crap.
The only decent tihng is a mini-titan, altough i fly a LOGO 14 which is absolutely AWESOME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kam24]

There are some pretty awfull helis out there its true but I think that any thing is good if it gets people into flying. Some people just want a inexpensive taster and as long as it flys then thats fine by me.

[Brendan]

"Hi, I thought this page was about Helis not wasting money on artf jap crap."

Nice constructive comment. So everything other than your personal choice is crap going by that theory. Thanks for sharing that nugget with those of us less knowledgeable than yourself!!

PS 30 years ago, my first bike was classed as jap crap - I still ride japanese bikes and it's been a long time since anyone used that term - apart from the odd harley rider of course! Live and let live as kam24 implies.