Micron PL7d

[Terry Tippett]

Hey I had a Gangster in early days. Think Ripmax? Flew well. So good to hear that some of the 'soldering set' are still alive and kicking! I too' Gangster', have lots of getting projects ready for flying but these days it never seems to happen. Not like the old days when I was out three times a week flying. 2.4 look the way ahead but if you think about it, that leaves the 35Meg band more safe?

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Terry Tippett]

WOW PL6D ! there wont be many of them around now.

[Mike T]

I'm glad Terry has joined in because it gives me an opportunity to say thanks for all the DIY kits you produced, which helped add another dimension for the 'makers' in the hobby, as well as make it more affordable.

I was sorely tempted by the RM Digicon set, but I reluctantly decided I couldn't trust my rotten luck and even worse soldering skills to a project of that scale, so bought the Fleet XP/FM, a near equivalent.

But I did buy/build the full-size and micro rxs, together with the brushed speed controller and several BECs. All great fun and very easy to do, though younger 20:20 vision and use of a strand of copper earth wire as a soldering bit helped a lot!

[Terry Tippett]

Ta very much Mike but in those days anybody could have done what my wife and I did. Packs of Electronic components were extremely cheap compared with the ready made R/C systems of those days so we just enjoyed the moment. And being an aeromodeller it all worked brilliant. (and I could get out flying (testing stuff!) three times a week.

it is so good to us to see you Guys still talking about 'Micron' which is now almost half a century old. I am quite amazed that we are still talking about it here.

[Model Monster]

Hi,

For Terry,

I've pm'd you a few micron queries.

[Stuphedd]

Just found these 3 unused stick on metal plaques from way back when , any use to anybody ??

[Terry Tippett]

Hi Stuphedd

I can offer a good home for the stickers for memories of times gone by.

For contact you can use norcimguy at gmail dot com for my home address I would of course pay postage of the huge container involved in shipment. .

Best Regards

Terry

[MaxG]

Still have my PL6D and also some Rxs plus a few 35MHz rxs that I used until recently when I changed my Multiplex to 2.4.

[Terry Tippett]

PL-6D was the start of Micron standard colours ie Black and White ! other colours crept in later on.

Like the Wat 4 colour scheme very artistic. 2.4 is the only way to go now.

[Model Monster]

Hi to any Micron afficianados,

I'm currently putting together a PL7-D kit which includes a 35mhz Tx & Rx with 4no bb servos. I started on the servos and the 1st 3 work fine (on a modern servo tester). The 4th one drives to a position and then just jitters. I can't see anything wrong with the soldering and I've triple checked that all the components are correct and the right way round. The pot and wipers all appear ok. Anyone have any ideas?

[gangster]

Wow that’s fantastic that you have 40 year old pl7d kits. Just a thought with your servo. If I recall those bb servo kits were a pain to let in the cases. Just a thought remove the motor or a gear. Turn the pot and see if you get thr

motor to stop or slow. Then move the stick and see if motor slows or stops. Or even speeds up. This will indicate proper operation now get the motor or gears back in

[Model Monster]

Just tried it with the motor out (of the gear train), it just runs all the time but changes direction if I rotate the pot manually. The motor doesn't stop at any point. I've also tried swapping the integrated circuit with one of the working servos and that works fine (the i.c.).,

[gangster]

Sounds like it is almost working but cannot balance up. Try reversing the motor connections if you can reverse it with the pot it is working the motor just cannot get it to that point. Maybe going the wrong way

[Terry Tippett]

A bit difficult to know weather a mechanical or electrical problem. you could try putting one of the working amps into the problem servo. but things could get messy. may be best to just keep that servo for spares ?

[Model Monster]

Thanks for the previous advice re the servo. I decided to build everything else before working anymore on this (I'll work through the suggestions as the next job). So, lots of soldering done, a suprisingly successful outcome and I now have an operational tx, rx and 3 servos. The 4 primary controls work great. I've just got to make uo and install the 3 aux switches and put the stickers on. The only difficulty is that I could do with a few of the 3 pin plugs for the extra channels for the servo leads. They are 3 pin with one of the pins spaced a bit furher apart than the other 2 - does anyone know if they are still available, what thy're called or where to get them?

[gangster]

I am not totally sure exactly which plugs but have a rough idea. I believe they are made by SLM. They are or at least were a couple of years ago. I did have some of the servo plugs but cannot check for a day or so you are welcome to them

[gangster]

Just had a swift google but cannot see a reference to SLM. There are however various SLM connectors on eBay. I believe Micron went into Futaba connectors later on. My PL7d project is still not complete but just waiting batteries

[Model Monster]

Gangster, thanks for the kind offer. I've pm'd you.

[Chris Downing]

Sorry to reply to this topic so late - only just renewed my subscription after some years - but, by any chance, does anybody have unused PCBs for the Micron/RM Digicon plug-in mixer cards?    There was a Vt delta flp car and a DIF AIL CAR pcb . 

 

I built the system from the Radio Modeller articles in the 1980s and still have it.  I was using it for driving a boat around at a lake here in Canada a few years ago.  It always bothered me that I had not "finished" the system by making the plug-in mixer cards, so I am now looking into it. (Covid boredom triggered it.)

I have found a source for most of the components, although the Piher potentiometers no longer have the reformed lead versions to match the PCB holes, only the 5mm spacing type; those would do though.

I  cleaned up one of the pcb images from the magazine article (in MS Paint!) and sized it to fit my transmitter encoder board, but now it seems a huge headache to make the pcb. I haven't masked and etched a pcb for many years!  (Don't have any supplies either.)

Maybe, I thought, someone has had both of these tucked away for years and never used them?   It's worth a try asking.

 

Cheers,

Chris

 

ActSize2 Micron DeltaFlpCar MixerPCB.bmp DifAilCar MixerPcb--uncleaned.bmp

Edited May 29, 2021 by Chris Downing

[Chris Downing]

I thought I would update my prior post about the RM Digicon mixer cards. This may be of interest to other keen RC electronics members.

 

After giving up for a while, I got back to the idea and decided to go all out and complete my RM Digicon system by making the two mixer cards. I haven't enjoyed RC electronics so much for years.

I now have some new PCBS and I just finished making my RM Digicon mixer cards! I'm very happy.

 

It happened like this.

I discovered the Chinese online PCB makers who can make several PCBs for only a few pounds or Canadian dollars. The only trouble is that they all require 'Gerber' files.

Gerber files, I learnt, are a mainstream standard for CAD/CAM production (Computer Aided Design/Computer Aided Manufacturing).

A far cry from the old school methods I knew from the 1970s and 1980s. These files enable automated machines to create PCBs  "en  masse" at low costs.

 

I found a small programme to download that converts images to Gerber files (ImageToGerber) and so I converted the Digicon mixer card images in my magazine pages to Gerber files and tried submitting them to to one of the PCB manufacturers. Hmm. No luck. They were not able to make the boards from just the copper traces They wanted  an 'edge cut' file and a 'drill hole' file and 'silk screen layer' file and more!  I did explain that the PCB  pattern on my Gerber file had a thin copper line around it that defined the edges, but they didn't understand that.

 

So I found a free electronic and PCB CAD programme called Kicad on the web and tried to learn that. Wow, it's quite a complicated programme, but also very comprehensive.

 

Now, the normal path of work in this programme is to draw a schematic in one part of the programme then translate that to a PCB layout with all connections already made. Then you drag components around to fit better and adjust copper track thicknesses to suit. It was all quite mind-boggling for me at first  but I persevered.

It took a while to get the hang of it but I knew I didn't need a schematic in there, with all the other functions, just PCB design.

First, I found how to import my Gerber image of the PCB traces into its PCB editor.

 

Once my new Gerber file was in the new programme, I found out the image conversion I had used was likely going to work because this Kicad programme's 'Gerber Viewer' recognised it as a copper layer!  I also realised that the conversion created hundreds of small points around the edges of my copper tracks. This made the tracks appear with rough, zig-zag like edges instead of smooth, even lines. See attachment 1   'RoughTracks.png'.   Hmm. 

 

I decided to ignore this at first.  I then exported this to the Kicad PCB editor. Nothing showed up!

 

 

Hmmm.  So I read up about this and discovered there are several file extension naming conventions for the Gerber files.

I changed the file extension from gbr to gtl and tried exporting this from the Gerber Viewer to the PCB editor again. Aha.  This time a rectangle appeared in the programme, but not as I expected.      See attachment 2. All I saw was a small blue rectangle outside the drawing area. What the heck?

 

I tried again several time with the same result and eventually discovered that this really was my copper track layer. When I clicked on it a track outline showed up!

In fact all the tracks were showing up with a slid covering across the whole PCB; hence the solid look. The positioning was due to it not having any recognisable or compatible co-ordinates.   I found I could select all the items of the rectangle and move them down into the drawing area.

Then I clicked on different parts until I found a whole rectangle, which, obviously did not belong. I deleted it and suddenly there was my PCB pattern

 

With this achievement I realised the tracks still looked awful and rough when I zoomed in.  I began a long process of zooming into one edge at a time, selecting a point then deleting it.

 

Boring, depressing and my wrist hurt. But eventually I had a rather clean image of my copper tracks, just like Terry Tippet's original magazine image but now in the CAD file.

 

I don't know if the rest of my progress would be boring to other members so I'll leave it there right now.

Let me just say I moved on step by step until I had the required files to send to the manufacturing company, and they made me some nice, clean PCBs, ready to assemble.

 

I'm quite chuffed at finally having my Digicon system complete after all these years. Thanks to Terry Tippett for  a great design which I enjoyed building in the 1980s and just enjoyed finishing now!

 

 

[FlyinFlynn]

I commend you on your perseverance with Kicad through to a finished product.  As a personal choice I  find EasyEDA easier to use. 

 

I wonder if it might have been easier to use a conventional CAD program to trace the isolation tracks to remove the jaggies and replace them with a single straight line.

 

Would have been a lot easier if Terry published the circuit diagram 🙂   Maybe he did, but I didn't find it on norcim-rc

[Chris Downing]

Yes, Terry did publish his Tx circuit diagram in Radio Modeller in agreement with their publishing, although the mixers had only the theoretical circuit-parts. That was fair, I think, as most people would buy a kit to build them.

I still have the original articles from 1986. There were a few pages missing from later in 1986, but Gangster was good enough to email scans to me, so I have the missing pages now.

I haven't seen EasyEDA but now I have learned enough of Kicad to work with it I'm very happy with it.

 

I found out later how to import 3D models of parts and I eventually was able to produce a full 3D view of each mixer board.

Here's the three channel mixer (VtDeltaFlpCar). It's amazing what these CAD programmes can do, eh?

 

By the way, the view here is from after I learned more and added all the component names into what is called the 'silk screen' layer. The PCBs I made were simply plain board with the tinned copper tracks on the back.

 

It was fun but I think I would rather get into building something with balsa and plywood now!😉

 

 

[FlyinFlynn]

I guess my main complaint with Kicad is the lack of schematic 'module boards'. As an example I have recently been working on a project that employs an ESP32C3 super mini uP board and a HT1818Z3G5 GPS module, neither of which appear to be available in either Kicad or Altium meaning there is considerable extra work to generate these components before the real work can begin.. If you want to insert a ESP32 wroom chip there is no problem, Kicad (and Altium for that matter) has every single conceivable 'official' variant on offer - but try looking for a esp32c3 super mini, they are not official Espressif boards and don't seem available in Kicad and I guess the HT1818 hasn't had the commercial uptake required to make it into Kicads library yet. If I'm wrong please tell me where to look for them. EasyEDA has a 'user contributed' section where there are usually a myriad of offerings - albeit not all of them correct but at least you are not left with having to create your schematic component and footprint from scratch.

12 hours ago, Chris Downing said:

into what is called the 'silk screen' layer

That's the top silk screen 🙂    there is one for the bottom too.

[Chris Downing]

AH- Yup. I know what you mean. I had to do a lot of searching to get all of the required footprints and 3D models, then edit some of them.

To do any work in a reasonable time you really do need the popular modules to be available.

 

BTW, I just found the Gadgets and electronics forum and there's a lot of interesting stuff there. That'll keep me in thought for a while.

Edited April 1, 2024 by Chris Downing