Red Eagle 2016 Build

[David Begg 1]

I will use the free plan as the build plan from now on. If it falls to pieces I guess I can always spend $30.00 or so and order another one from RCME. (postage is the killer!)

The Red Eagle does fly well???? How would it compare to a Gentle Lady?

Cheers

David from New Zealand

[Piers Bowlan]

David, I copy the free plans I build from at my local printers with no distortion on their big professional copiers. It is cheap, about £3 ($6.25NZ) a sheet and is more durable than the original. I can also refer to the original when the model is pinned down 'in build' and I need to refer to the other side of the plan. Surely you must be able to find a print shop near you.

[Piers Bowlan]

Regarding transferring the images from the plan to the wood I usually just use the old-fashioned method of 'pinning out' the shapes through the plan to the wood, I then join up the pin holes in the wood with a soft pencil and ruler. It doesn't take too long and it sounds less messy than using toluene or a similar solvent, although I haven't tried using the solvent method myself yet.

With wing ribs I make a 'master' out of thin ply and simply hold it down with my fingers onto the balsa sheet whilst I carefully cut round the master with a new blade. The trick is not to shave parts off your fingers with the scalpel blade whilst also not allowing the master to move about on the blank as you cut! With a bit of practise I find I can produce a usable set of wing ribs in about an hour. This is fine for parallel wings where the ribs are identical but I revert to pinning out for tapered wing ribs which takes much longer of course. However with a tapered wing once you have produced one rib just carefully cut round it to produce the second for the other wing panel. Works for me at any rate.

[Andy G.]

I cheated and bought the short kit from RBC!

[Piers Bowlan]

I think that the problem for David is that living in New Zealand the postage would be prohibitive if he bought the short kit. Also, perhaps he likes the satisfaction of building the whole model from sheet rather than just assembling it. As for me, I am just tight!

[Philflyer]

Guys, I hate to sound like a nanny but please be careful with ventilation using anything containing toluene. Some of my technicians used to use it for cleaning rubber aircraft fuel tanks prior to repairs. Nothing worked better but we had to stop using it because of the risk of being sued.. Its fine as long as your work area is well ventilated.

Extract from the Health Protection Agency:

Health  Toxic following inhalation or ingestion  Harmful and irritant  Irritating to the eyes, throat, lungs and skin  Inhalation or ingestion can cause dizziness, drowsiness, sickness, headache, slurred speech, slow movements, hallucinations, heart problems and coma  A possible reproductive toxin  Long term inhalation of toluene can cause permanent damage to the nervous system  There is no convincing evidence that toluene can cause cancer in humans

[Roger Mason 1]

Hi David. I have not flown a Gentle Lady but I have observed an Electra (the powered version of the Gentle Lady) in flight - one of our club members has built one. From my observation,s and his comments, the performance of the Red Eagle is far superior. I built a Red Eagle earlier this year from the plan and the performance is great even in winds over 10 km/h (measured). I left a message and photos on Tony Munsterens thread for the Red Eagle if you want more detail.

Regards,

Roger (from New Zealand)

[Phil 9]

Posted by Philflyer on 06/06/2016 15:32:07:

Guys, I hate to sound like a nanny but please be careful with ventilation using anything containing toluene. Some of my technicians used to use it for cleaning rubber aircraft fuel tanks prior to repairs. Nothing worked better but we had to stop using it because of the risk of being sued..

The true motivation for Heath and safety at work procedures. Actual risk to life and limb is normally far less likely than litigation

[Andy G.]

My Red Eagle still flies great, it's had almost 16 hours of flight time now, survived a night in a tree, a couple of ham fisted landings plus a pretty high altitude mid air! Testament indeed to great and easily repairable design..

[David Begg 1]

Thank you for all the responses, much appreciated. I will answer all the points raised.

Firstly I have been away to Christchurch at my wife's uncles funeral. (380 km 5 hour drive away) My phone decided to update everything using my rather limited data plan, with the result that all my data disappeared and I could not receive or send anything. Still thems the breaks. Vicki's uncle was 91 and had a very eventful and full life, he had 'a good innings'

Andy G- The Red Eagle sounds very durable. I think the same as you, if you built it, you can repair it. ( see my reply to Piers Bowlan re using a kit, it would be great but.....postage/ freight kills that idea.) I will build it off the light weight free plan, I will cover it and be careful, it will be right

Rodger Mason1- That sounds really positive, I have my Gentle lady tuned in pretty well, but it is a learners glider. I am looking forward to see how the Red Eagle performs. As an aside, after a lot a measuring the Gentle Lady angle of attack was slightly modified by lifting the rear of the wing by 1mm. That made a huge difference to how it flew.

Piers Bowlan- You hit the nail on the head, postage/freight to New Zealand for anything like a kit from the UK is a killer, postage puts you off any idea of purchasing a kit, unfortunately. I did take the plan down to the local copy shop to be copied on their big printer and that is where the distortion occurred. I have had copies of house plans and the like before, and they are stamped with the message that this is a copy and all measurement are be made used using the measurements on the plan not taken directly from the plan. I suspect the distortion of large plans may be quite common. I will use the free original, cover it and be careful. It will work out fine.

Well I think that covers the points raised. After a good nights sleep, I will get back into it hopefully tomorrow.

[David Begg 1]

I have made the LH wing panel, everything is fitting together like a glove, using the free plan from the RCME magazine. I am very pleased. Looks just like LHR Dave's pictures.

Everything is looking very good.

[Roger Mason 1]

Hi David, I assume that you have looked at the thread started by Ton van Munsteren who designed the Red Eagle. There a lot of building information and photos to assist your build. Good luck. Roger (from NZ)

[David Begg 1]

Yes Rodger, I have the Ton van Munsteren thread saved and refer to the excellent photos from time to time. I am pretty pleased with how things are proceeding. Thank you for the reminder of the thread. Cheers David (from NZ)

[Alan Thorpe]

Good luck with the build! This is a great flyer, I really enjoy flying it, it can handle some event wind also and is very stable for camera recordings!! Let us know how your build goes and enjoy!
Alan (ireland)

[David Begg 1]

Thank you for the words of encouragement Alan. I have the left hand wing completed and are slowly progressing. Apart from difficulties with transferring the images to balsa, and the inaccuracies in the copied plan which I overcame by using the original, I have no problems building so far. I am very pleased with what I have made so far.

My wife and I spent a really enjoyable week in Ireland 4 years ago searching out where the distant relatives came from, around Kilkenny. Loved the accents. and everything is SO green! (Will never forget the black cab tour we made of Belfast, the tensions were beyond our comprehension, a completely different place to Ireland)

I will keep you informed of progress from time to time.

Cheers

David (New Zealand)

[onetenor]

Oh dear what a fuss over 8 mm. The solution is simpler.On the copy make a mark on each rib 8 mm from the TE Next cut off the TE at the joint with the ribs. Now guess what lay the cut off TE touching the marks on the ribs and stick it down carefully.. You don't need me to tell you with what do you ?Once stuck you can use the tougher copy to build from You might have to adjust the tip to TE fit.

What does Alexander say ? You've got it

[David Begg 1]

No 8mm is to great an error to correct as you describe, also is there an error only in one direction or copying errors have occurred in both directions, or very probably a different copying error in the other direction.

With all the time,effort and money to build a plane, I , anyway want to make it correctly. I believe that the designer of the plane has gone to a lot of effort and experimentation to get the plane correct, i.e. flying the best he can get it. I am quite happy to alter a plane, but it must be built correctly, before modifications are started as without a 'true' plane to test various modifications on you have no idea what caused a problem or what helped the plane fly better. I work on the 'only alter one thing at a time' school of thought, when repairing or modifying something, otherwise you don't know what you did that correct or worsened a situation.

For people that still work or think in inches, 8mm, according to my maths, is around 5/16 of an inch, i.e. an error larger than 1/4 of inch. To my thinking this is a huge and unacceptable error that must be avoided.

I am aware that a paper plan will stretch and shrink depending upon the weather, particularly humidity, but errors caused by changing weather would be nothing like 8mm error I experienced in my copied plan.

I hope for your enjoyment of model flying that you are just being frivolous. With errors of 8mm being regarded as a trifle, any plane constructed with that degree of error in the plans being accepted are unlikely to fly well.

Cheers

David

[LHR Dave]

David

Once I have copied the plans and transferred the image to balsa and then cut it out I always check it against the original plan for accuracy.

On my Red Eagle build i have changed the size of the main wing spars as I was unable to obtain the size stated on the plan.

I would like to see some pictures of your build as it sounds like you are doing a great job.

As for my build I have started to cover the outer wing panels. I need to incorporate the wash out as I cover the panels this has proved quite difficult and have achieved it on the first one but it does not measure up to the dimension on the plan i think it should be 10mm, mine is more like 7mm.

anybody got a good tip for doing this.

Dave

[David Begg 1]

Hi LHR Dave, from my building experience get that wash out right, it does have a huge affect when flying re stalling. Once with a stubborn wash out that was not correct I used a heat gun and heated both sides of the covering and twisted the wing in the desired direction as the covering cools. I over twisted in the amount of wash out required so when it inevitably straighten a little on cooling the desired wash out emained. (Two people are useful for this) I also have a flash temp controlled heat gun so can you set the temp on so the covering will get hot but I don't burn holes in it. If this doesn't do the trick I guess it is cut appropriate glued joints in the wing to give the required washout and then reglue the joints in the proper position. Make sure the washout stays in place over time and does not straighten out.

I had today lined to work on the glider all day, but it looks as if I might have to assist my wife with a very tricky situation at her work, that may involve a 6 hour journey out into the country. There is always tomorrow!!! Mean while I sit here in my good clothes waiting to see if I am needed.

I will post some pics shortly of 'Red Eagle', all I have so far is the the rectangular section of the left hand wing, not fabulous interesting stuff.

I had trouble finding the spars too, but a shop out of stock ,put me on to someone that had spars, and I cleaned them out as they only had 6 1 metre spar lengths. For some reason spruce is difficult to buy and is expensive in NZ. Often wondered why spruce is not grown here??

Cheers

New Zealand David

[PatMc]

Posted by LHR Dave on 15/06/2016 20:09:10:

As for my build I have started to cover the outer wing panels. I need to incorporate the wash out as I cover the panels this has proved quite difficult and have achieved it on the first one but it does not measure up to the dimension on the plan i think it should be 10mm, mine is more like 7mm.

anybody got a good tip for doing this.

Dave

Yes, just live with it at 7mm. The washout on a model like the Red Eagle's wings won't be at all critical. In fact zero would probably be fine.

[Andy G.]

When I built mine I forgot to build in the washout, it flies just fine! The spar size has been a problem for many builders, it seems a common size where Ton lives but nowhere else. I just modded the rib slots to suit what I could get. When you get to the fuselage build you may want to add a little local reinforcement around the formers where the wing sits as catching a wingtip on landing can cause stress fractures in that area.

[LHR Dave]

The completed aircraft,

It has been ready for quite a while now ,havent got round to flying yet ,but hope to in next few weeks,

[Ton van Munsteren]

Dave,

The RedEagle is looking great and love the colours.

On the drawing the CG is 80mm but best location is 90mm from the leading edge.

Don't know if you have that already, but thought I should mentioned it to make sure you have the best CG setting.

Enjoy the maiden and stay away from thermals because your into some long flights.

Cheers

Ton

[LHR Dave]

I thought i would report on the maiden flight of the red eagle.

Well the flight did not last very long , I hand launched into a light wind probably 8mph the red eagle lept out of my hand and went up like a rocket. I levelled out and went into a circuit and brought it back into wind. It did not feel right and decided to come into land the Red Eagle descended at a fast approach and it was at this moment that the wings folded and it hit the ground short of the strip.

The wings ripped out of the mounting blocks and the carbon joiner was shattered.The front end of the fuselage was smashed to the extent the motor firewall parted company along with the front end of the fuselage breaking up.

All is not lost , the wings are unscathed and i think i will join them permanently with a brace and fibreglass bandage.

As for the fuselage it is nothing that I can,t repair.

Im not sure why the wings folded maybe my carbon joiner was not up to the job or maybe it came in faster than it was designed for.

Anyway it will live another day , but the repairs will probably not begin until the winter building season is upon us.

Your thoughts are most welcome.

Dave

[cymaz]

Sad news, after all that work.