Paul C Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Guys,For those of you who think "It will never happen to me", have a read of the enclosed link - http://www.camfc.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1102Thank god no one was hurt but a striking lesson anyway !Paulp.s. If anyone has any gear they don't need, I think Joe would appreciate any help.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mackey Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 I dont think anyone thinks that Lipo fires are all hype - especially those who actually use them ! I am a firm supporter of LiPos ( incase anyone didnt realize ) but have always preached about the care necessary when using them - good disciplines and a careful and methodical approach is required, and in every documented case of fires involving LiPos it has been shown to have be caused by operator error. The severity and drama of the case concerned was hightened by the fact that the battery was being charged inside a petrol powered model - this is in itself very bad practice. The only lesson to be learned here is the same one that has been taught since LiPos became popular for us R/Cers years ago, and that is......BE CAREFUL. FOLLOW A ROUTINE AND DISCIPLINE.DOUBLE CHECK YOUR CHARGER SETTINGS EVERY TIME.CHARGE OUTSIDE OF YOUR MODEL AND ATTENDED. Interestingly, the OP has not yet returned to inform the thread of the cause of the fire...wonder why PS I do not mean to sound smug, or uncaring - I do feel for the guy, and am truly glad that only property was damaged - fire is a terrible thing....especially in ones home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted July 22, 2008 Author Share Posted July 22, 2008 HI Timbo,Agreed, the title probably was a bit harsh I like many people on here am a firm supporter of LiPo power but, as LiPo becomes more and more main stream it's good to be reminded that they do need care in handling. While I feel whole heartly for Joe and as someone who has taken the odd short cut from time to time, I consider this as a firm kick up the a$$ / wake up call.(note to self - a quick 'top up' in the back of the car while nattering is not a good idea ) Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kearsley Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 I think I might have asked this question before (apologies if so), but has there EVER been a reliably documented case of LiPo fire which is NOT due to operator error? In this case we don't know what parameters were set up for the charging and it's therefore impossible to say whether operator error was the cause. This is not in any way intended to diminish the sadness we all must feel for this poor chap. But we also need to be clear as to whether LiPos are safe UNLESS mistreated - I think they are. I've been using 'em now for over 18 months and have not once had a problem. Nonetheless I NEVER charge unattended and I store my batteries in an outbuilding, just in case. I think it very unwise to charge a battery while it's in the model and to do so with petrol close by is a bit foolhardy. But hindsight is always 20/20 and I DO feel for the guy.Cheers,Tim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 I've been using Lipo's for over two years now without any problems, but at the Cosford show at the weekend I invested in a Lipo sack just for added protection.Incidentily whilst most chargers will check for the number of lipo cells, they will only do this if set to charge lipo's, if you had been charging say a NimH Rx battery and then went to a Lipo you might fool the charger and it would work as a Nimh charger. I know this works as I used it to put a bit of charge back into set of Lipo's I had discharged too much and the Lipo setting wouldn't recognise them. I only did this until I'd put 200 mah back in and then charged them as lipo's. So it is possible to inadvertently set the wrong cell type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Foreman Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 I recommend a dedicated LiPo balance charger, multi-chemistry chargers although useful give more chances of user error. After a bit of research I invested in a FMA balance charger that has a lot of safety functions built in to reduce the risk of a fire, but as someone has said above faulty equipment can never be ruled out. Although my charger tends to go into error if somthing is not right but nothings 100% error free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mackey Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Tim Kearsley wrote (see)I think I might have asked this question before (apologies if so), but has there EVER been a reliably documented case of LiPo fire which is NOT due to operator error? In this case we don't know what parameters were set up for the charging and it's therefore impossible to say whether operator error was the cause. This is not in any way intended to diminish the sadness we all must feel for this poor chap. But we also need to be clear as to whether LiPos are safe UNLESS mistreated - I think they are. I've been using 'em now for over 18 months and have not once had a problem. Nonetheless I NEVER charge unattended and I store my batteries in an outbuilding, just in case. I think it very unwise to charge a battery while it's in the model and to do so with petrol close by is a bit foolhardy. But hindsight is always 20/20 and I DO feel for the guy.Cheers,Tim.Not to my knowledge...which was what I suggested in my reply - operator error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdy Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Poor guy... I agree though it is nessisary to take precautions. I charge in a liposack clone, although unfortunaley,I cant charge in a garage or outside easily (Puppy + no plugs in garage). I also have a £100 vislaro A6 balence chager, with switches off it the pack gets over however many degries as well as beeping madely when its not sure of the number of cells, which it tells by only letting you balence charge lipos. Also what precausions do people take to store their lipos; I am at a loss here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Foreman Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Keep them away from the Puppy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mackey Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 If you want to go to extremes ( and I think sometimes KISS is best ) then some folk have even built "puff detectors" to warn of packs swelling up - I kid you not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdy Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Who thought those up I wonder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Card Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 No-one likes to imply that someone who has suffered such a loss is at fault, but I would like to know what battery, what charger and what settings were involved. Until then I'll go on believing my lipos are safe unless I abuse them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YakMad Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 I store my Lipos in a pair of portable safes, supposed to be for storing valuable documents at home, as in case of fire the material the case is made of semi melts and seals the contents in, they are supposed to be rated for 30 mins in a house fire, I got mine in Argos I think they were only £25 each plus they can be locked. It's called a Sentry fire security chest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdy Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Might look into it. I have heard that the thing to do is use sand filled biscuit tins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdy Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 You could put the biscuits where ever you used to put lipos! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultymate Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 If lipos are deemed to be so dangerous how come we are not constantly assailed with tales of mobile phones and laptops bursting into flames. I suspect it's probably down to them having specific charging systems and not the multi-purpose chargers that we modellers use which inevitably lead to the dreaded finger troubles which in turn lead to the dreaded fireballs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kearsley Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 It's a point, but I suspect those devices use Lithium ion batteries rather than LiPos? I'm not sure whether Li-ion cells are so susceptible as LiPos. For one thing, I think Li-ion batteries have rigid cases, rather than the flexible cases that LiPos have. The chemistry also must be different I think. Those points aside, I agree with you that all the horror stories we've heard about LiPos so far are due to either incorrect charging or physical abuse (crashes for example). I don't think there's ever been a case of a LiPo spontaneously combusting for no external reason.Tim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdy Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Tim is right; most devices use lithium iron. Only one that I know does not is the wireless controllers for PlayStation 3s, but then, if you have one of those a burnt down house probably isn't that bigger loss! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Harris Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 Laptop and phone batteries have internal protection circuits.These are not used in modelling because they would get in the way of the high current short discharge times we use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mackey Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 Andy Harris wrote (see)Laptop and phone batteries have internal protection circuits.These are not used in modelling because they would get in the way of the high current short discharge times we use. They are actually used in LiPo tr packs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mackey Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 Rocket Ron wrote (see)When they are Manufactured.,all may have under gone testing to meet quality high standards.,but with anything will all ways be a percentage that has gone through the net.,ie a reject.,this to is a concern.,but maybe small.,without evaluated data from them., or events what or as in this case not reported.,its difficult to say what this figure will be.,plus whats left of this one plus others..,As Country of Manufacture plays a part .We have a Kite mark system here ((B S I) British standards Institute.,meaning all under gone our fitness of purpose of use in all aspects.,as said to have one means tested., an expensive outlay for Manufacture (Costs) so at the end of the day it has to be passed on....used to say look for the Kite Mark!! how often do you see today?..agree with all to safty of use.,plus we all know the high tempertures generated.,not helped by wrapping them up tightly in plastics plus then in other meterial to do nothing but increase tempertures further., enough to cook an egg!!........... the cooler they are kept on charge or otherwise the better.,its felt Research/ Devoplments needs to be addressed & investment to overcome them.,for charging we know cut off failsafe electronics build in.,so when charged switch off occurs.,unless breakdown fault stops this happening with results of this whole discussion.,think Safe!!do safe!! Be Safe!!.live longer..!!All cells work better at slightly elevated temperatures, especially the LiFo PO4s - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Kershaw Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 I've used all sorts of lipos over the past 5 years, low and high end, without so much as a warming during charging.The only time I ever had smoke was when I did something VERY stupid whilst connecting up serial packs - yup, you guessed. But then it didn't set on fire, just emitted noxious smoke. On the subject of "supervised charging". What does this mean? Are we all supposed to stand over our lipos whilst they're charging? I agree it's probably not a good idea to put them on charge on the sofa in the sitting room then go to bed, but this seems a bit extreme.Also, does anyone know how severe a lipo fire is assuming it's NOT in the immediate vicinity of a can of petrol, which I have to say seems just a touch cavalier.Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mackey Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 pretty volatile ! If you really want to see...then many such fires exist on the web - utube and the like.I confess to not standing over my packs whilst charging, but I am in the vicinity, and have smoke detectors in several locations around my garage - agreed dont leave 'em on the sofa overnight while you get your zzzzzzzzzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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