Lipo's Handle With Care

[BB]

In light of some stories read recently. I found these videos on You Tube this morning....

Lipo 1

Lipo 2

Lipo 3

Lipo 4

[260 Flyer]

I won't try charging my packs at 10C then!

[Tim Mackey]

Ah yes... the old "warning! -LiPos are hugely dangerous and unpredictable bombs waiting to destroy everything around them films"

That reminds me, I must make that film I was always meaning to do showing the results of throwing a lighted match into a can of IC fuel......or maybe that one where you plug your "safe" nickel-based cells into the mains and wait for the explosion as they vent themselves with enough force to blow your head off...or perhaps lighting up your fags whilst re-fuelling your car, or maybe seeing whether you can stay on a motorbike around brands hatch at 200 MPH in the wet with completely bald slick tyres ....then there's the one etc etc

Sorry guys.... IMO this does nothing to further the cause of these most wonderful of technologies, without which a VERY LARGE contingent of fantastic models would not be flying at all, and these old hat scaremongery infantile films are nothing more than proof that any fire or explosion or whatever of a Lithium Polymer battery is down to stupidity or carelessness by the operator...bit like throwing that lighted match into the fuel bottle

Not unpredictable at all Ron .

[Tim Mackey]

Rob Crewe wrote (see)

I won't try charging my packs at 10C then!

No careful or sensible person would Rob...but then of course this hobby, like so many, has its fair share of people who possess neither trait - I still keep a very watchful eye out at the strip (s ) for the "newbies" with their LiPos and chargers

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[260 Flyer]

Timbo - forum moderator wrote (see)

Rob Crewe wrote (see)

I won't try charging my packs at 10C then!

No careful or sensible person would Rob...but then of course this hobby, like so many, has its fair share of people who possess neither trait - I still keep a very watchful eye out at the strip (s ) for the "newbies" with their LiPos and chargers

That was the point I was trying to make, no proper LiPo charger would produce such enormous currents as shown on You Tube. I agree with your first comments, almost anything can be made to explode or burst into flames if you try hard enough!

[BB]

Trouble is there are dumb dumbs out there who don't read the instructions,use cheap chargers and leave their Lipo's unattended whilst charging.  Not all modellers own Anoraks.

I read in these pages less than 10 days ago of a fire caused by lack of attention to protocal when charging these types of power pack. So, I don't agree that it is scaremongering.  Not everyone understands volts, amps and the like, and the need to stick to a healthy routine whether using Lipos or Nitro.

[Tim Kearsley]

Timbo absolutely, completely, perfectly hit the nail on the head.  There are endless opportunities to cause explosions, fires, injure yourself in all sorts of exotic ways by being an idiot and not following simple, basic instructions.  Why pick on LiPos?  And to the statement that  "Not everyone understands volts, amps and the like...." I would reply that if you are embarking on flying electric aeroplanes then you should take the time and trouble to get to understand.  I repeat what I've said on this forum several times before - I've used LiPos for over 18 months now without ONE problem.

[Ultymate]

B. Biggles there are many things in life which one has to be careful around and take care in how they are handled, my wife for one, so why you've chosen now to single out Lipo batteries is beyond me. The risks have been documented ad infinitum for a long time now and one can never legislate for people doing the wrong thing with any equipment. All types of battery are potentially dangerous and beware anyone who treats them with contempt.

[Kevin Wilson]

I managed a 'one point' (vertical) landing last sunday

Reduced the length of my 3S LiPo by a good 10-15mm. Still waiting for it to burst into flames!

I am with Tim on this. The constant harping on about LiPo's does nobody any favours.

If you are not prepared to read the instructions then do not be suprised when it all goes wrong.

[BB]

I agree with what your saying Ulty. Im not singleing Lipos out. But, I dont agree with the attitude thats simply states 'it hasn't happened to me therefore....', which does seem to be the impression exhibited.

I have done a little reading on the subject. I was thinking of going to Lipos. Unfortunatley I won't be, as I cannot devote the time to them when they should be charging, attended.

And yeah, we could all be dead tomorrow Question remains. Will it be the Wife or the Lipo, the baker or the candlestick maker...?

Q   Have read that after initial charging Lipos have a shelf life of around 2 years at their optimum best. Has anyone else heard similar ?

[Ultymate]

I think Lipos like most things in life will have a finite lifespan but dpending on how hard they are pushed then their lifespan can vary dramatically as has been explaned many times and in great detail by Timbo and others on this forum far more experienced in electric modelling than I  

[Myron Beaumont]

May  i add my pennyworth    I was probably THE most sceptical ic (dyed in the wool)"fanatic around a while back having read all the "scare" stories, Thanks to my research & knowledge imparted to me on this forum ( Timbo especially who has patiently answered all my queries). I now enjoy this new (for me ) aspect of the game ! No problems so far (touch wood )) . I never set my fuel alight either in 55 years . Common sense plus knowledge -- the answer to avoiding self induced accidents .Nanny state - Pooh

(climbs off soapbox before it collapses under stress) ( 13 stone per cubic foot)

[Tim Mackey]

Hi BB - I didnt mean to start a war with my response - but I didnt say " it hasnt happened to me therefore etc " either

I have also never said that Lipos dont need careful attention, and although I admit that I am someone who is very regimented in my routines of battery charging - I also admit to NOT being constantly attending every time I charge up a pack !  Instead, coupled with my due diligance of ensuring the charger settings are correct - I "simply" double check everything ( polarity, charge rate, pack configuration etc ) and hit the go button. I wouldnt leave them charging on the bench whilst I was out of the house, but I frequently leave them to get on with it, whilst I sit and watch TV in the adjacent lounge - ask the wife - she is fed up of the programme being constantly interrupted by the beep beep of the charger telling me to come in and take the battery off

My point was, and still is, that LiPos are no more dangerous than the other scenarios I described, and that every potentially hazardous activity needs to completed in the correct way, minimising the risk as far as possible - even crossing the road needs a routine. Unfortunately, I think you have singled out LiPos by the very act that you have posted links to several videos of people doing silly things ( albeit in the interest of demonstration ) with lipos - why not do a search across U-Tube's vast selection of stupid people doing stupid things, for something related to petrol fires, or abusing car batteries and so on.  I and I suspect many other experienced LiPo users have seen it all before, these types of videos have been around for years.... and in the aerly days of Lipo and R/c there was probably a greater risk than currently - chargers have got a whole lot smarter and safer, and if you use the right equipment , properly, and carefully, these fantastic power sources present no greater hazard than most of our activities associated with the hoibby. I mean, how safe is starting an IC or Petrol engine - I am sure we have all cringed at the abysmal methiods we have all seen at one time or another. I will answer your Question re: lifespan etc below, as there is word limit on posting.

[Tim Mackey]

BB says - "I Have read that after initial charging Lipos have a shelf life of around 2 years at their optimum best. Has anyone else heard similar ?"

As Ulty says, this has been covered n detail in other threads, and I am currently writing up a future article for the magazine all about Lithium chemistry cells - their life expectancty, useage, and care etc will be part of that article. It is the wish of the editor that the article appear in the magazine before it gets exposure on the forum ( which is a commercial and fair decision ) so I cannot tell chapter and verse here in a single thread. The point about shelf life is not a straightforward or simple answer I am afraid - there are too many variables involved such as storage voltage level, temperature, history of cell useage and the discharge rates used etc.

Any battery /cell will deteriorate to some extent over time, and Lipos sadly are not the hardiest of them

If I can give an example or two, I will confirm that I have had a pack or two go pretty much useless after just a couple of flights, but conversely, I also have a pair of KoKam packs here which were the very first packs I ever bought... around 5 years ago. They were pushed quite hard in a powerful Ripmax Alienator at around 40A, they have no balance plug fitted as such namby pamby things did not exist in those days ( inserts tongue in cheek icon here ) so have never been balanced. They have been used /abused for probably 75 -100 flights in several different models, have been left fully charged at the wrong storage voltage level in the wrong temperatures, and they still perform pretty darn well. Sure they dont have full power that they used to have, but sadly... neither do I.

Embrace this marvellous battery technology BB, get the right charger and follow the rules.... and enjoy the sheer revolution that these things have created in our hobby. Honestly... you will never look back.

PS dont stand too close to the microwave oven ....... you do HAVE a microwave oven right ?

Only joking... please dont take offence

PS I have 2 x Anoraks

[Myron Beaumont]

 I dont have a microwave in my campervan but I do have a large Propane gas bottle . Tell me ! Is it dangerous ?

[Tim Mackey]

Only if Chrissy can lift it high enough

[RonSpencerUK]

Hi

I hope someone can give me a bit of advice on disposal of LiPo's.

Whilst clearing out one of my son's cupboards in preparation for a house move, I found  box of electric heli 'bits' including four LiPo battry packs. Three of them are OK (used a tester on them), but the fourth is VERY swollen - like an inflated balloon. 

I've buried it in asand in a ceramic pot out in the garden, but I dont know how to safely dispose of it. Any comments would be of great help.

[Tim Mackey]

Ensure it is discharged fully ( sounds like it is ) then drop it in a bucket of saltwater for a few days, out on the patio or somewhere similar.... then, remove and drop into the trash.

Some peeps advocate piercing the battery with a sharp stick to allow the saline to penetrate better ( which completes the absolute discharge) but I am not sure this is always wise - I have actually pierced one with a 6" nail once ( for research purposes ) and NOTHING happened.... nor bang, no puff, no fire, very disappointed I was as it was November 5th and I was trying to save money on fireworks

However... not really advisable IMO.

[andy watson]

Take it to the local council tip for disposal,

[BB]

Blimey Rocket your up late. Im at work.Go home for an early a.m. sortie at 06:00hrs .

Have enjoyed the many comments about Lipos. Learning all the time. Thanks

BB

[Tim Mackey]

Rocket Ron wrote (see)

Yep..,agree with Andy..,Council Tip they have a place for them to go in.

Well my local council certainly dont....and most LiPo manufacturers will simply say dispose of them in the regular garbage - provided they have been properly discharged as per my posting earlier.