Loaded Dice 40S - spray painting

[MikeQ]

Hi

just joined forum again as previous email address has been deleted!

Anyway, I've posted about this in a couple of places over the years but never got round to finishing it. I've got a Loaded Dice 40S I built in the last century but never got round to finishing as I was worried about making a mess of the glass finish etc. I've hummed and harrred and always found other projects. But this is THE year. I bought the gear, I finished the glassing, I've had a bunch of goes at priming, I've sanded through to balsa, I've patched, repaired and am now finally at the edge of the precipice!

So I thought I'd go over where I am now, how I got here and see if any one can spot anything wrong with what I'm about to do. Please shout up as I had to sell a kidney to but this Oracolor paint.

Cheers

Mike

PS I'll post some pics

[MikeQ]

Hi

fuse covered in .75oz cloth and SP113. Wings covered in Oracolor film with the green and blue sprayed on Oracolor. Have some extra bits of trim to add to wings but pretty much done. Fuse rubbed down and given a bunch of coats of Halfords yellow high build rattle can primer and/or Halfords grey regular primer. Also used 3M red stopper to fill dings and scratches. Where I sanded through I found it easier to use ZAP to seal the wound, feathered with stopper then whacked with high build primer ... rather than trying to patch with more glass.

You can see how long this model has been on the board ... the cowl was originally shaped for an OS 46 SF then altered for an OS 46 FX and now I'm going to use an OS 55 AX. Just finished the Canopy and fairing around it. First time I've used epoxy and microballoons ... it's a lot smoother than the photos look as I still had to wipe down the airframe properly.

So now it's time to prime with Halfords rattle can grey primer. Then I'll spray Oracolor white with my HVLP FastMover mini gun FMT3600, 0.8mm nozzle. That's where it could go pear shaped. I used a cheapo £10 external mix airbrush AB101 to spray the colour on the wings and the cockpit. Surprisingly good for small areas. I got the blue on the wings a little 'orange peels' and should have probably recounted with a thinner 'flow' coat or two. I got the green better but need to go over again as it was a little to thin and it shows on the 'edges' of the TE and LE of aileron.

Compressor is a machine mart 6.5cuft 24ltr tank which I thought might be on the smaller side for a HVLP gun but I guess we'll see. I've only used it once on a 'learning' model ... a smaller profile LoadedDice.

Any comments or advice welcome.

Cheers

Mike

PS ... b@gger ... need to work out how to add pics from ipad

[MikeQ]

Photos ...

[MikeQ]

[TartanMac]

I will be painting my uno wot at some point and bought some light filler light weight cloth and zap finnishing resin and some sanding sealer just wondering if you sealed the model under the final primer coat ? I could not put photos from the album to the forum on a phone had to use laptop.

[MikeQ]

Hi

To be honest I covered the front half of the fuse about 10yrs ago I think and the rear last year! I made heavy weather of the whole thing, including the smaller profile LoadedDice which was supposed to be done first in order to learn all the techniques on. The way it worked out I've done bit of both at various times over the years but now I'm going to justify get hem down by the end of October hopefully.

If I were doing it again I have settle on this approach for now:

• Cut the cloth out 1" over sized all round
• Lightly spray the fuse area in question with 3M photo mount
• Lay cloth on and smooth out
• Pour a small puddle of SP113 in the middle
• Squeegee out with a credit card
• Allow to dry
• Use sand paper to cut of any excess ... bit like trimming doped tissue with sandpaper ... gives some feathering
• Lightly sand
• Wipe down with panel wipe
• Lightly sand
• Add a second coat of SP113 squeegees on
• Wipe down and sand back but not through the weave
• Wipe down with Tack cloth
• Fill any obvious dings with 3M stopper and feather sand
• Spray with Halfords yellow high build
• Sand back
• Repeat and uneccessary number of times
• Spray with Halfords regular grey primer, rub back and repeat an unnecessary number of times

And that's where I am now ... ready to give final coat of grey before spraying with Oracolor. To be honest there is a bewildering amount of differing advice about the whole thing. There's an article on line by PhilClarke of FighterAces which is what I've basically followed.

Would be interested to hear what others do as I'm on a learning curve here. After these two models I have TopFlite Corsair to glass and cammo etc

Cheers

Mike

[TartanMac]

your model looks great the cowl area looks very neat and tidy also like the fuse curving up to the canopy just looks much higher quality. I was just wondering if you would know when you get swirls in the paint with cleaning and so on. can you just buff it if you don't lacquer it or does the colour cross over each other ? I'm not sure what to do with mine I want a satin finish but I will use around 4 colours and don't know if I should lacquer it or not you model looks great I cannot see any height difference either with different colours.

gonna be watching this thread with a lot of interest to see how this model turns out.

[MikeQ]

Hi

The blue and green Oracolor sprayed on top of Oracover does leave a discernible lip. About the same as say the pink Oracover over lapping the white Oracover. So just like the line you'd get doing film over film.

I'll have the same issue on fuse when doing paint over paint I guess. I'm not sure what the approach would be to get a pure smooth glassy finish. I think that's the one where as you mention, you spray it up and then flat it all back. Then give it a top coat of clear and cut that back to a glossy finish.

Ideally that's where I'd like to get to on next pattern model ... a super glassy finish.

Any experts out there can chip in?

Cheers

Mike

PS couple of extra pictures of the profile LD. I actually sprayed the wings with KlassKote white as a base. It's cheaper than Oracolor. This model is totally glassed. So I might try painting in a mix of KlassKote and Oracolor and cut it all back and apply a clear coat. I'm conscious on both models of weight build up

[MikeQ]

 hmmm .... all upside down ...Profile LD

 

Edited By MikeQ on 30/09/2017 08:59:03

Edited By MikeQ on 30/09/2017 08:59:40

Edited By MikeQ on 30/09/2017 09:00:26

[Engine Doctor]

Hi not familiar with Oracover paint. Is it a cellulose ,acrylic or enamel paint? To get a glassy finish you will need a top Clearcoat preferably a two pack that sets firm and is fuel resistant. A few drops of plasticiser in the clear will prevent cracking. Be very careful to keep paint thin as it's heavy. You may find that base coats can be applied in auto  water based paint. It covers well and is possibly lighter when dry than the solvent paint. I apply paint to models using a small gravity fed touch in gun from my car painting days. Your compressor will be more than enough for one of these and they are fairly cheap. All your prep seem ok but sand as much of the primer off as possible using a sanding block to keep weight down and surface smooth. Holding wet and dry with fingers leaves a poor surface that looks horrible when glossed. Before applying final primer apply light dust coat of a different colour and sand back wet . This will find any low spots  

I glassed a Peterborough Models Cap 21 about 20 years ago and finished it  in Electric Blue metallic with gold trim and finished it in  two pack  Clearcoat . The finish was /is excellent. I only flew it a couple of times and put it away in the loft. I got it out last year an it was still immaculate after a light wipe over and it now belongs to a club mate.

PS sorry for the funny A's with hats but tablet insists on inserting them? 

Edited By Engine Doctor on 30/09/2017 11:12:08

[MikeQ]

 

Hi

Oracolor is a 2K paint from same manufacturer as Oracover (aka Profilm). As I covered the wings in Oracover I wanted the fuse colours to match hence using the Oracolor. It's compatible with Oracover hence finishing some of the colours on the wing in Oracolor.

It's right pricey stuff ... bit like Oracover itself compared to say Solarfilm. Was the first time I've used Oracover and it went on really nice. Much better than solarfilm products I've used. Very nice stuff.

I think I'll try the clearcoat approach on the profile version ...

 

Edited By MikeQ on 30/09/2017 13:16:22

Edited By MikeQ on 30/09/2017 13:29:39

[MikeQ]

Hi

Finished glassing the remaining balsa parts off both models. Rubbed back and initial prime with Halfords yellow high build primer. Will sand back and remove nearly all this, I've actually weighed these components from the start on a digital 0.1g resolution scale. Not something I've ever really done with radio models but all my Freeflight comp duration models were recorded in minute detail.

[TartanMac]

That looks really good so far looks like that high build paint really works too what do you think of it ? Is is a spray can or ? I will have to use cans for mine.

[MikeQ]

Hi

Spray cans.  Work really well.Once I'd done the first and second coat of epoxy I rubbed back lightly with the 80grit aluminium oxide paper dry then 180grit W&D silicon carbide paper used wet with a drop or two of Fairy liquid. Lol ... saliva works great too! Anyway ... I gave it a light spray of grey primer just to see what it looked like. Rubbed back with the sameness W&D lightly. Then filled a ding or two with 3M red putty. This stuff can dry almost instantaneously so you have to be careful to get it on first time and feathered a bit. I found that if you leave it too long it's actually quite hard to sand without damaging the surrounding material. I had to sand it with the W&D wet within a couple of minutes to get a good feather. Then a wipe down with panel wipe. Got this, along with cellulose thinner, from a local car custom spray shop.

Then a couple of coats of yellow high build (filler) primer rub back with W&D used wet. So ready for a final grey coat and ready for paint. Once again, this might not be exactly right but it's where I'm at right now.  Looks pretty rough but actually surprised at how glassy the finish is

cheers

Edited By MikeQ on 02/10/2017 19:17:24

Edited By MikeQ on 02/10/2017 19:19:19

Edited By MikeQ on 02/10/2017 19:21:14

[MikeQ]

Hi ... finished fuse in Halfords light grey primer. Added 15g to weight so 1/2oz. Wish I'd kept weights from start. Ready for spraying white then ...

 

 

Edited By MikeQ on 04/10/2017 17:59:50

Edited By MikeQ on 04/10/2017 18:00:17

Edited By MikeQ on 04/10/2017 18:01:27

[Adrian Smith 1]

Work of art, MikeQ. I am pretty hopeless with a spray can so it is interesting to see your techniques.

[TartanMac]

That looks great nice and smooth Finnish I worked a day at a body repair place doing insurance car bodies. He used one of those scouring pads I think it was green my guess from memory was 400 gritt with a bucket of water before paint to scuff it up but I'm sure I used a block with wet and dry also cant remember just wondering what your next step is looks really nice and very neat. I like how the nose is one piece and no cowl also the curve into the canopy. Just wondering is that curve wood or plastic canopy ? I'm sold on painting my Uno Wot I might do what you have with the front cowling.

[MikeQ]

Hi

bit of progress. The curved bit around the canopy is an equal mix of SP 113 laminating resin and SP microballoons by weight with a tiny bit of methylated spirits to make it slightly more liquid ... probably went too liquid actually. I masked the canopy and fuse off to give a strip about 1/2" wide across the junction between the two. Then I applied it all around and left it for about and hour.  Don't try and get it to look right at that point.  It looks a mess and all you'll do is make a bigger mess.  After an hour or so It dried to the point where it was like putty and with a meths dipped finger I could shape it a bit into a nice shape. Then next day I could take the masking off and feather it all out. It was a bit more effort than that but that's the nuts of it. It was the first time I'd done it but I did make up some test pieces first to practice. Don't use regular 5 or 30 min epoxy ... I found it virtually un-sandable. Laminating resin seemed better .... thinner I guess.

Tamiya masking tape is great for the curved masking ... then just regular B&Q yellow masking tape for the block masking.  http://elementgames.co.uk/paints-hobby-and-scenery/paints-hobby-and-scenery-by-manufacturer/tamiya/tamiya-masking-tape/masking-tape-for-curves-3mm?d=22&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsLrkoKfp1gIVQ5PtCh2Gng16EAQYAyABEgJu5PD_BwE

 

Edited By MikeQ on 11/10/2017 20:29:40

Edited By MikeQ on 11/10/2017 20:31:26

Edited By MikeQ on 11/10/2017 20:34:55

[MikeQ]

Anyway ... I decided to put the LoadedDice40S on the back burner now its primed. Decided to do what I wanted to do all along ... practice on the profile LD. I finished priminig it in Halfords yellow high build rubbed back, then Halfords grey. Rubbed back VERY lightly with 600WD just to dull the primer to key it. Then panel wiped. Then I sprayed it with the touch up gun using white KlassKote.

KlassKote was mixed 1:1:1 between the paint:gloss catalyst:reducer. The reducer was added after the paint and catalyst had been mixing 15 mins. I gave each component a light mist. Did it 3 times waiting 15 mins between each mist. What with the number of components I was busy all the time so worked out well.

Last coat was the 'flow' coat which was actally a mix of 1:1:2 ... the extra unit of reducer making it thinner and glossy. Had a couple of runs on the fuselage by getting too keen but brought it back by brusging with reducer a little, waiting, then shooting again. You can tell its a bit thick where it happened but good enough for the test model.

Anyway ... the results are better than I expected although not concours class. Waiting to mask and add colours. Preparation is the thing to making life easier on yourself. I created lots of little 'handles' from dowel and old craft knife blades and worked out where to stick em whilst drying. Also created some kind of spray booth using cheap shower curtains from B&Q. Have everything like paper towels, mask, mixing pots, multiple supplies of gloves, newspaper, etc etc all ready and ready to go.

Bike stand for £20 from Lidl is VERY handy!  especially as I ride bikes too!

Bit war and piece but writing the above as much for myself to read again next time.

PS ... had a reaction in one or two places on the wing what with having sprayed, primed and done allsorts originally. Seem to remember using that Deluxe Material EzeCote at one point which I found was total rubbish as even after leaving for months it started to 'rubberize' not long after starting to wet sand with W&D. Anyway ... next day rubbed back the spots with 400 W&D and recoated. It worked out OK as those spots will be covered by other colours anyway. The left over KlassKote mix is still sprayable 3 days later as I kept it well wrapped up and sealed in the fridge! Interesting to see how long it lasts.

 

Edited By MikeQ on 11/10/2017 20:56:56

[MikeQ]

Edited By MikeQ on 11/10/2017 20:57:38

[Ben B]

Mention of 2K paint always gets me worried- are you using a proper ventilated hood? I'm pretty relaxed about most hobby related health hazards but 2K is nasty nasty stuff. Certainly if they contain isocyanates a standard mask isn't good enough- should be air-fed. Spraying 2K paint remains the commonest cause of ocupational lung disease.....

[MikeQ]

Hi

I was using a filtered mask ... see pic. Plus the garage door was full you open and sprayed at edge of door ... so pretty well ventilated. I couldn't smell it whilst I was spraying. If yo're doing it day in day out I could see your point but doing it now and again at a hobby level is surely not at the Sam end risk level?

Cheers

[MikeQ]

[Ben B]

I personally still wouldn't. Long term cause asthma type allergies. Acute reactions just kill you. One of my other hobbies is building cars and this topic crops up frequently. It's very tempting to spray 2k rattle cans but it is still dangerous.

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/2k-safety-leason-learnt.14051/

[Ben B]

Of course it could be isocyanate free