West Wings BAe Hawk EDF

[Tom Foreman]

Its still light, but its only 15% built so too early to say . Reading through Gordon Whiteheads build on RCgroups and another one on RCMF, there's came out about 400g over weight at 1600g (target AUW 1200g), they put this down to glassing and spray painting. But I think 1200g might be a little optimistic. I'm still undecided on finishing, iron on film will be lighter and faster but glassing will be tougher and nicer. Got a couple of days booked off work after today so might be able to get the fuse finished and make a start on the wings if I'm lucky

[Tom Foreman]

19 RHS formers built onto LHS .JPG

20 alignment is looking a bit off.JPG

21 Trial Assembly, evertyhing seems to fit.JPG

22 Framework separated ready for sheeting.JPG

24 sheeting finished, remembered to leave access holes for final assy.JPG

25 Ready for Assy.JPG

[Tom Foreman]

I assembled the RHS frame work using the LHS as a template as per instructions, I had though that this would be difficult, but it turned out better than I thought in the end. Still, we'lll see how straight the fusealage ends up at the final assy stage.

I changed methods for attaching the sheeting on the RHS from alphatic resin (yellow glue) to thin cynao, this sped up the assy, and was marginally easier as I didn't have to use as many pins and weights. I don't know how much weight it has saved, when I weighed the Fuse halves, LHS 100g, RHS 94g the RHS is lighter but the sheeting isn't finished yet as I  remembered to leave off some sheeting at the tail end to help install the tail plane joiner and some bottom sheeting to help install the ducting (re-read the instructions - )

Anyway I've got to do wall papering now so I might not get to do anymore today. When I re-read the instructions I suddenly realised that they have changed the location of the ESC to behind the motor in the ducting so that solves my cooling issues. The one that Gordon Whitehead put together had the ESC just behind the canopy at the top, trying to use the tiny airscoops on top  tocool it.

Now the only problem I can see will be battery cooling as there is no airflow through the battery bay, but as long as I use a big battery this might not be a problem.

Cheers

Tom

PS - Timbo, whats wrong with Tornado ESC's? The only problems I have had are they are a bit bulky and I get a strange results at low rpm on 4s1p models, the speed does not stay constant. Apart from that they are OK.

[Tim Mackey]

Only my experience Tom, but the only ESC that ever let out the smoke was Tornado branded, and the replacement did the exact same thing. Both were being used well within their claimed spec.

( I always use ESC at about 75% maximum of their claimed capability).

Once is unlucky, but twice ..... - no more Tornado branded stuff for me I am afraid.

[Terry Whiting]

How about this for service from West Wings.

 I had damaged the panopy of my BA Hawk. In the instuctions West Wings state spares can be obtained direct from the manufacturer. I phoned their number and explained my predicament. " No problem sir" came the answer, "What is your address", I gave my address and asked  the cost including p&p, the answer was " No cost at all sir, all a part of our service, it's all good PR".

I was gob smacked   

That's what I call some fantastic service          

[Tom Foreman]

Excellent Terry, how did you break the canopy?

Built a inlet fairing today, still scraping the cynao off my fingers . Can't decide whether to glue it on now or wait until its covered / painted. Oh well better go and build the 2nd one. Hows yours coming together Terry?

Tom

[Terry Whiting]

It was self inflicted damage,  I cut to the wrong line, I was half way round the canopy before I realized  , but I thought it a wonderful gesture on the part of West Wings.  

   I have only just started sheeting, one side complete.  The inlet fairings were the first parts built, and as I will be covering in Profilm I can see they will require covering before fitting. The ABS nosecone and the two fuselage shaped parts I have sprayed black with Plasticote, and look quite good, I thought better to spray before fitting. I would like to include a picture or two, but I can't get my head round Photobucket, like they say,  you can't teach an old dog new tricks,......Must say your's is coming on just great.

Terry 

[Tom Foreman]

Well, it will be better once i get my hands on some clamps so that I can glue it together true, the sheeting has distorted it slightly. Might try damping all the sheeting down and piling on some weights and let it dry out on a flat surface, might be better than forcing it all together with clamps. No building tonight was out riding my mountain bike with a local MTB club in the Yorkshire Dales, Thistleton Scar beautiful mild weather, although a little damp under foot. Full moon as well!

With regards to submiting photos, just click on the tree icon above "insert image", then select the "your computer" tab, follow the instructions and you should be able to upload the photos directly to this website (no need for photobucket external sites). You might need to create an album first, to do this you need to click on your "my profile" which is at the top of the page in the left hand corner next to your name. Then click on "my gallery" in the menu options and you can add an album. The only other tip is to reduce the size of the photos, I do this in the windows photo viewer and re-size everything I want to upload to 800 x 600, this should drop the file size to below the 250 Kb limit.

Any probs just ask

Cheers,

Tom

[Terry Whiting]

Thanks for the advice Tom, and I know you mean well, but I have only used a PC these past 12 months and I find all the jargon a lot of gobbledygook.

I started on the Hawk's wing today. Do not like their method of washout, so for me I will use my tried and trusted system of building in washout at the trailing edge.

Received my new canopy from West Wings yesterday, great service.

   

[Tom Foreman]

26 Fan + ESC + Motor Wires

27 Fan

28 Fuse Gluing Straight On View.JPG

29 Fuse Gluing Side On View

30 Nose glued on inlet fairings taped on temperaly.JPG

31 Getting there slowly

Well hope to see some photos one day Terry.

Here is my current progress, joing the fuse halves together was rock solid as it had to be pulled back into alignment also starting to notice a few omissions in the instructions, like the gussets and former joiners, need to follow the plans more closely so as not to miss anything.

Just need to glue the inlet ductings, fit gussets, former joiners, plastic tube to fan, cockpit & latch and finally fan hatch. Then I can start building the wings and tail feathers. Still the sun is shining and no wind so I'm going out to fly the Twister jet so probably no more progress today, but you never know

[Tom Foreman]

Have now built the fan hatch, installed the battery tray, built half the canopy, fiddled around with the ducting and fan and sort of have it finished. Have left the fan out for the time being until the fusealage is covered.

Started joining the sheet elevators and fin together. Modified the fin to incorporate a rudder. Also slapped some filler on the fuse and started to shape and smooth it out a bit. Might make a start on the wings soon as I'm getting bored of the Fuse.

Cheers

Tom

[Terry Whiting]

No not yet, as both hatch openings, canopy and EDF will not be quite  as per instructions.                     The battery tray I have  fitted .

Fin and tailplane are finished, including the rudder. To operate tailplane and rudder I have not used the snakes provided, but  2mm carbon rods,supported with two 10mm  plastic tube guide/bearings to each rod, this enabled me to have no external linkages, bit of a damn fiddle, but managed it. I have now  direct linkage with ball join couplings at the tail end. Any adjustmens I can make at the servos.              To make my tail end connections I have not sheeted the section of the fuselage directly in the fin area, this will be sheeted once the fin and tailplane are fitted.

I was hoping to have a removable wing, but the fuselage needs the wing glued in situ to give integral strength, the whole fuselage is not the strongest of constructions even for an electric model.                       I have nearly finished the second wing panel. You will find the ribs are shorter than that of the plan, and that 5/8" bevel makes for an extremely weak trailing edge. I incorporated a TE length, 15mm wide of 1/64"ply (.5mm ?). this is sandwiched between the two sheet trailing edges, much better now.

cheers   Terry 

..      

[Tom Foreman]

Wow Terry, I will have to speed up a bit. Sounds like you are making good progress, and I like your idea of the internal linkage. I did toy with the idea, but decided that I didn't want to risk it breaking and having to perform major heart surgery to fix it. Your braver than me

Still can't decide on whether to cover in film or glass cloth and poly -c  

Tom

[Terry Whiting]

Well Tom I'm using Black Profilm.

 I have covered two small areas, and the two planked air intakes.    The areas in  question  were either side of the fuselage where the air intakes are glued. It would have been virtually impossible to cover with the intakes fitted, or cover the air intakes between theirselves and the fuselage.

All the ABS I sprayed with  black 'Plasticoat' giving all a 400 wet&dry rub between coats, they were beginninig to looked fantastic, on the fourth and final coat the whole lot pickled, what a 'B' mess,   it all had to be removed using 220 paper. I have now painted them with black Japlac, and pleased to say there not a single brush mark     

No worry about any major surgery due to any tailend problems, as the sheeting in that area will be two hatches, no screws, just held shut with 10mm width strips of Profilm. I can assure you they will never come off without heat,.  many of  my sport models only had Profilm for aileron hinges, as will the Hawk.

Cheers  Terry 

  PS ...... I didn't use their method of wing washout, I use the old and trusted way  having the taper at the trailing edge, it worked just fine. 

[Terry Whiting]

Hi Tom,

Has your Hawk been put on the back burner?, mine is now completed and although I say it myself, I'm  very pleased with it's looks.         I  can not put a picture on this site, but if you fancy a look, check out my Club Site     www.hhmfc.co.uk     and look in the gallery .   

[Tom Foreman]

I'm trying but its slow progress I'm afraid, all I've managed is a bit of filling and sanding on the fuse and I've built the fin and rear stabs. Yours looks excellent well done! Hope mine turns out half as nice. I two was going to do the black RAF valley trainer, but a friend of mine very kindly bought me a book on the Hawk showing lots of different colour schemes, so am undecided now What AUW did you come up with? I weighed all my bits including a 4s1p 3700 Lipo, fan and motor but excluding the wing, rc gear and finishing and its already up to 1100g, so I think mine might be a bit of a porker, nevermind

[Terry Whiting]

          Mine has ended up at 1215g, but then I'm only using a 3s 2500 Lipo, that's a175g (6oz). saving on a 4s .   Just be careful with the paint. The review model in Model the Flyer AUW was 1400, and that was a paint job , but flew well even on 3s and a hand launch.    

[Tom Foreman]

Wow! Well done on keeping the weight down, starting to think I might have to go for a lighter finish, and be a bit more economical with the glue and filler!

Well its xmas eve, should I wrap presents, go MTBing or finish the Hawk,,, I think its Hawk time! Must get it finshed!!!

Merry xmas Terry

Tom

[Terry Whiting]

And a Merry Christmas to you Tom

Have fun

Terry

[Tom Foreman]

Well didn't get very far yesterday, just added the tailplane wire joiner and completed the rear sheeting, glued the ducting in, trimmed the inlet ducting to the fairings and slapped light weight filler about a bit and did more sanding. Will put some photos up when I do somthing significant

Tom

[Tom Foreman]

Hey Terry, I forgot to ask, where are you mounting the ESC and how are you cooling it? I'm mounting mine behind the canopy and going to use the fairings on the top of the fuse to scoop air in (same as Gordon Whitehead), then I will have to spoil my ducting and drill some holes so that the fan can suck the hot air out. Unless I put an air exit hole at the back of the fuse. Thoughts?

 Tom

[Terry Whiting]

Tom ,I have mounted mine under the rudder and tailplane servos. in it's own special duct . Where you are drilling holes, I made two letterbox type flaps almost where the ductings are glued together.

 I then shaped two pieces of 1.5 balsa sheet they were glued in about 30mm apart  which fitted that Y section of the air ducting, with the ESC mounted in the middle. Two elongated triangular openings have yet to be made in the sides of the fuselage forward of the battery. My own design 60" span ME 262 recieved the same treatment , with two pieces of balsa shaped to fit and glued behind the openings, and painted as the fuselage makes them almost unoticeable. Where as the Hawk's EDF is creating the airflow, the 262 relied on ram air, it's air exit is behind the wing trailing edge.

   

[Tom Foreman]

Sounds complex, you'll have to show me a photo some time, I'm sure its easier than it sounds

Tom

[Tom Foreman]

33 Fuse Finishing RHS - bit more sanding on the fin, need to cut out the rudder as well.

34 Fuse Finishing Head On - Tailplane needs re-jigging

35 Fuse Finishing LHS - still waiting for the postie to deliver my jet pilots, alas I fear they have been lost in the post. Inlet fairings still need a bit of work to fair them into the plastic side pieces. Wing still needs building / starting as well!

Cheers

Tom

[Terry Whiting]

Looks good to me Tom, have you decided on the finish yet.

By the way, where did you source your pilots? , I have been looking in all the mags for 1/12 scale pilots.

Best of luck with your wing, I made my ailerons 40mm longer which allowed the servo to be 40mm nearer the wing root, which in turn enabled me to use 9g servos. The servos were mounted on .25mm lithoplate which was surface screw to hard points in the wing. Being only .25mm thick, they are hardly noticeable.

cheers Terry