Former Member Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Piers, on the subject of cheap, Citroen have a proposed car, Ami 1, a 2.5 meter long box, 2 seats, space behind the seats, max speed 28 mph, range IRO 50 miles. No need for 350 KW chargers. Hard floors, easy to clean with no corners, and to cut down on part count, one door part, front hinged on one side of car, rear hinge on the other. Pretty, no. Shopping box, dog transport, second car, cheap. Should be a hoot in a city, but there are plenty of non city buyers need a cheap, small range second car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Christy Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Posted by Percy Verance on 07/03/2019 13:29:37:Peter There are literally dozens of EV charge points in Devon. Look on the Plugshare site - just enter Devon in the search box. Sadly, you need an account to access it.... -- Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Posted by Piers Bowlan on 07/03/2019 05:43:40: 350kw charging? Everything I have read about charging, irrespective of the battery technology involved, links fast charging to reduced battery life. Used on a daily basis many electric car's battery performance reduces considerably after four years, resulting in not only a reduction in range but also performance. Battery replacement is a significant part of the cost of the car. Batteries not only have problems with low temperatures but also with high temperatures too, when it comes to battery life. Teslas have cooling fans for the batteries whereas some cars, notibly the Nissen Leaf does not. The Tesla also has larger batteries and does not charge to 100%, both designed to stress the batteries less, hence improving their longevity. A £30k or £50k reduction in price would still not make me buy one however- it couldn't pull my caravan (very far). As a second car a two seat (+2 dogs) uber-basic urban runabout with a decent performance (no lead acid batteries, thank you) if short range, might be a different matter - if it was v-cheap! Nobody builds one Roll on Lithium/Air and Aluminium/Air batteries, which if they could 'only' sort out the technology all our electric car dreams would come true! Completely agree - without some kind of leap forward in battery tech these much trumpeted fast charging capabilities are going to reduce cycle life dramatically. Then there are the safety implications of charging at such high currents in highly populated areas. Would you fancy sitting in one of these vehicles whilst charging or even walking past it at the motorway services whilst 1400A are going in? No thanks...! Edited By MattyB on 07/03/2019 15:53:34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Re batteries, interesting article here on battery development . Also re Tesla, I read their new Shanghai factory capable of turning out 250,000 electric cars per annum should be operational this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Christy Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 You are right, Percy! There is one at newly built filling station only a couple of miles from here! Sadly, when I say one, I mean one! There are over 8 petrol pumps there, however! I haven't noticed it beacuse. although I drive past it often, I've never seen a car charging there! Many of the ones shown are in orange / brown, which seems to mean they are not active yet. The main holiday route to Devon and Cornwall is either the M5 /A38 or the A303 / A30. No doubt the M5 has some (I never use the motorway filling stations, for obvious reasons!), but the A303 / A30 ones must be well hidden, as they are not visible or advertised from the road - unlike the petrol stations. I know there are some at Fleet services on the M3, as I usually have a tea break there when traveling to and from Hastings. If my wife changes here car again (currently a Hyundai i10 - £20 a year tax and 45mpg, even around hilly Torbay!), I would certainly look at a Renault Zoe or similar. It would be fine as a shopping trolley and can't be any less comfortable than the i10! However, for the Hastings run, going to the Nats or up to Pontefract for the retro meet from here, I still maintain that electric is currently not practical! -- Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Christy Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 P.S. This guy repaired a Tesla himself and got it on the road for $6500!!! **LINK** -- Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 "without some kind of leap forward in battery tech these much trumpeted fast charging capabilities are going to reduce cycle life dramatically." It is a bit of a non-starter all round, although I imagine it will be used like "max hp" as a headline figure to flout in adverts. The real mileage is of course in the slow innovation going toward increasing energy density, lifespan and production cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Christy Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Percy: Not *my* i10 - its SWMBO's! I hate the thing! Cramped, uncomfortable and gutless! She loves it! I have to concede that its cheap to run, though! My daughter-in-law had a Zoe for a while. It was fine as a shopping trolley - like the i10 - but its shortcomings as a family transport led to it being replaced by a Qashqai (is that how you spell it?), which is much more practical for carting the kids around! Never been a fan of German cars. My mother had a BMW for a while. It was a wonderful engine and gearbox in a dreadful chassis. The seats were awful, as were the ergonomics! I had one very briefly, and couldn't change it soon enough, for much the same reasons. I keep hoping that NEVS (the successors to my beloved SAABs) will finally start selling their electric cars in Europe, but I fear that like many other manufacturers, they are converting the old designs. If electric is going to succeed, it needs to be new from the ground up - as Tesla have done. A conversion will never be satisfactory. And I am still unconvinced that the infra-structure could support a mass switch over. I feel that the future lies with hybrids, in the medium term at least. Just not with reciprocating engines providing the charging power! -- Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Chaps, as Nigel & others have mentioned this thread is in great danger or re-running the circular arguments in the Electric Car thread. Let's not go there eh? I'm not sure the servers could cope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Posted by Steve Hargreaves - Moderator on 07/03/2019 21:06:57: Chaps, as Nigel & others have mentioned this thread is in great danger or re-running the circular arguments in the Electric Car thread. Let's not go there eh? I'm not sure the servers could cope Might overload the grid................................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich too Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Indeed, three pages, and nothing to do with the OP 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted March 8, 2019 Author Share Posted March 8, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Or simply decide you don't want to look at a tirade of ill informed marketing codswallop, and pseudoscience. I will take Percy's advice. I'm out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 "I fear that like many other manufacturers, they are converting the old designs. If electric is going to succeed, it needs to be new from the ground up - as Tesla have done." Massive risk on Tesla's part. Which they knew. And part of the reason for high price (and teething troubles) of course. Some of that risk is done with now that they are onto the "mainstream" model. Wheras, recycle existing design, less risk, seems the mainstream car manufacturer's more likely route. I agree on hybrids. I think they will be with us for a long time. But that's ok. They solve most people's range anxiety and give you an IC for the once or twice a year long drive. And remove problems of being away for the night, not knowing where you can charge, etc. while the charging infrastructure catches up. I can't see Tesla producing hybrids though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted March 8, 2019 Author Share Posted March 8, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 I think... First and second generation made, released, beta tested by public. Tech refined, lots learned. Now it's third generation time, price reduction as a target. Coincident with production move to cheaper site. Also coincident with mainstream manufacturers bringing production capacity up. I'm sure there's more than that. The generational improvements in the Prius technology are an interesting read and probably give a clue as to how the mainstream full electric production will go. Right now the mainstream are on anywhere between zero and second generation? Nissan Leaf looks a good example of second gen. It's not mass market prices yet, but the technology is starting to look more usable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Christy Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 "Cheaper Teslas" - still haven't seen anyone beat the $6500 on the road from the article I quoted earlier! To summarise: The guy bought two damaged Teslas. One had been flooded, which destroyed the electrics, but the composite bodyshell was untouched. He then bought a crash-damaged one, with a broken bodyshell, but good electrics. He then swapped the good electrics into the good body shell. Finally, he sold off the good duplicate parts he had. Net result: an as-new Tesla S for $6500!!! Mind you, you need to be brave to work on the battery side of things......! -- Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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