Former Member Posted March 8, 2019 Author Share Posted March 8, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FilmBuff Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Here's my 2p worth. Tesla had first mover advantage in disrupting the auto industry with stylish premium brand EVs. But as soon as the established makers finally get their act together - Tesla will be blown away. When EVs can do 300+ miles on a charge, cost less that £28-£30K and be recharged in 20-30 mins then the market will switch. It will be the next big mobility inflection point after the gasoline revolution of the early 20th century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Christy Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 The guy in the US didn't seem to get any help from Tesla - quite the opposite, in fact! As far as I'm aware, there is only one state that has "right to repair" legislation - ie: an owner has the right to fix whatever he's bought if he wishes. It seems strange to us in the UK, where such a right is taken for granted! Mind you, I can understand Tesla's attitude, in view of the ludicrous court decisions you hear about from the States! I recall reading about some chap who had carried out a load of unauthorised modifications to a Piper Cub. The airfield he was based at deemed it unfit to fly, and instructed him not to fly it from there. Nonetheless, he did so, and after the ensuing crash sued Piper for not making the aircraft tamper-proof - and he won!!! No wonder Tesla are leery of home mechanics! Especially in view of the voltages and currents we are talking about! -- Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FilmBuff Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Posted by Percy Verance on 08/03/2019 13:40:26: I did intend to take a look/test drive in another brand's electric model, but the whole 900 car UK allocation due in April has already been sold...... Yes - I wanted to test drive a Hyundai Kona or Kia e-Niro. No chance. All models going direct to customers who have ordered and paid online - not to be wasted at a dealers... 11 month waiting list and the only chance you will get to drive one is at a regional test drive day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Posted by FilmBuff on 08/03/2019 15:25:53: Here's my 2p worth. Tesla had first mover advantage in disrupting the auto industry with stylish premium brand EVs. But as soon as the established makers finally get their act together - Tesla will be blown away. When EVs can do 300+ miles on a charge, cost less that £28-£30K and be recharged in 20-30 mins then the market will switch. It will be the next big mobility inflection point after the gasoline revolution of the early 20th century. True, but a Tesla Model S is the best selling luxury car in the USA and is price competitive with a Mercedes S class. They are not aiming at the bottom end of the market but the mid/premium price point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted March 8, 2019 Author Share Posted March 8, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDD15 Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 I think people are ignoring a very significant difference between Tesla and old school manufacturers. When you buy a Tesla you also get access to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IStNA3s4NcQ Tesla are selling you a complete system, and a very good one, everybody else is selling you a box on wheels. No other manufacturer even comes close in terms of forward thinking. The new Audi and Merc are just overweight big boxes stuffed with 2 motors and big batteries with appalling efficiencies. They've done nothing new in EV vehicle terms. I certainly don't see the Merc star ascending the heavens any time soon. Just my humble 5p worth of course! IDD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted March 9, 2019 Author Share Posted March 9, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich too Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Posted by Frank Skilbeck on 08/03/2019 17:51:50: Posted by FilmBuff on 08/03/2019 15:25:53: Here's my 2p worth. Tesla had first mover advantage in disrupting the auto industry with stylish premium brand EVs. But as soon as the established makers finally get their act together - Tesla will be blown away. When EVs can do 300+ miles on a charge, cost less that £28-£30K and be recharged in 20-30 mins then the market will switch. It will be the next big mobility inflection point after the gasoline revolution of the early 20th century. True, but a Tesla Model S is the best selling luxury car in the USA and is price competitive with a Mercedes S class. They are not aiming at the bottom end of the market but the mid/premium price point. Frank, they are aiming at the lower end, mass market. Thats the point of this thread, and the reason they are closing most dealerships - I wonder how you will get the car serviced in future? I've been in an S model and was initially blown away by it. However, I quickly realised it was nothing special to look at - sales rep - and for £80k +!!! Big car manufacturers have gone to the wall in the past, it is a hugely competitive market. I will be amazed if Tesla last long term. How long can they continue to make losses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted March 9, 2019 Author Share Posted March 9, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul coleman 1 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Shouldnt we be sticking to the intended use of this site,model planes,im sure there will be plenty of sites to rant on about cars,happy landings everyone,when the weathers right that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich too Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 https://electrek.co/2019/03/08/tesla-freezes-store-closure-layoffs-chaotic-sales-strategy/ doesn't feel you with much confidence. Edited By Rich too on 09/03/2019 09:41:31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich too Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Posted by Percy Verance on 09/03/2019 09:38:28: That's the rub Rich. The losses. Surely it can't last? Perhaps they're hoping the new Chinese plant, along with re-jigged pricing, will pull them out of the hole? It's an odd position to be in. They have a huge number of back orders, at least for their Model 3, yet seem unable to produce them in sufficient numbers due to various production issues. Edited By Percy Verance on 09/03/2019 09:42:00 Yes, it is not cheap producing cars. And they are clearly trying to change the situation to keep investors happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted March 9, 2019 Author Share Posted March 9, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted March 9, 2019 Author Share Posted March 9, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Posted by paul coleman 1 on 09/03/2019 09:40:04: Shouldnt we be sticking to the intended use of this site,model planes,im sure there will be plenty of sites to rant on about cars,happy landings everyone,when the weathers right that is. The forum is a big tent Paul, there is room for many different subjects & opinions. The Chit Chat section was created specifically for "Anything & Everything".....indeed I saw a thread about growing Chillis recently.... All that we ask is that posters stick broadly to the topic under discussion in a particular thread & follow the CoC. There is no compulsion to read every thread. If the topic under discussion does not appeal to you then do not read it. Simple as that really.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Off topic posts deleted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 and now................ more expensive Teslas! **LINK** GG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lima Hotel Foxtrot Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 I heard a brilliant comment the other day: Given that most people only commute maybe 15 miles, and the average range before charging of an EV is 300 miles (ish), so you don't need a wildly expensive car (ie pay for batteries) to use it as a normal vehicle. Tesla are going to have to sell much more cheaply to compete with established manufactures, such as Renault with the Zoe, who have masses of design experience and manufacturing infrastructure. Basically, Tesla may well disappear and the true company legacy will have been in pushing other companies to bring forward their EVs and move away from the obviously sci fi looking cars to more ordinary designs that just happen to be electric, which will have a greater market uptake through price and image acceptability. Flip side of the coin: some people will always use a silly car for popping to the shops or commuting (say, a V8 Land Rover) and these types will want the cachet of a big Tesla. On a different note, I thought my ringroad comment brought a touch of levity to an otherwise dispiriting argument. Ho hum. There are a lot of off topic posts still to delete... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Possibly, but don't forget Teslas problem isn't that they can't sell their cars, but rather that they can't make them quick enough to satisfy demand, this may cause them problems eventually. But also remember Tesla are the first company to have superchargers installed on the motorway network so have a rapid charging network in place, and they are an electricity storage company too, so battery development costs are shared. Most road tests of the Model 3 are very positive. I also see that they are using their new electric trucks to delivery batteries from their battery plant to their car assembly lines in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich too Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Posted by Frank Skilbeck on 11/03/2019 17:15:53: Possibly, but don't forget Teslas problem isn't that they can't sell their cars, but rather that they can't make them quick enough to satisfy demand, this may cause them problems eventually. But also remember Tesla are the first company to have superchargers installed on the motorway network so have a rapid charging network in place, and they are an electricity storage company too, so battery development costs are shared. Most road tests of the Model 3 are very positive. I also see that they are using their new electric trucks to delivery batteries from their battery plant to their car assembly lines in the US. Er Frank, they are making huge losses now so I think the6 already have problems! 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Posted by Rich too on 11/03/2019 18:34:36: Posted by Frank Skilbeck on 11/03/2019 17:15:53: Er Frank, they are making huge losses now so I think the6 already have problems! 😁 Er, they made a profit in the last 2 quarters slightly below expectations but they are making a profit and generating cash. VW think Tesla have an advantage as they don't have to protect their legacy IC engines plus hitting the sales of some other premium makes. They also have an SUV coming and a pickup (very popular in the US) has been spotted. So while they aren't out of the woods for certain the traditional car manufacturers are having to invest significantly to catch up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich too Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Fair enough Frank, I stand corrected. Still a long way to go 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich too Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Posted by Lima Hotel Foxtrot on 11/03/2019 16:57:24: I heard a brilliant comment the other day: Given that most people only commute maybe 15 miles, and the average range before charging of an EV is 300 miles (ish), so you don't need a wildly expensive car (ie pay for batteries) to use it as a normal vehicle. Flip side of the coin: some people will always use a silly car for popping to the shops or commuting (say, a V8 Land Rover) and these types will want the cachet of a big Tesla. Not many people can afford a £20-30k for commuting, and another car for longer journeys. Buying a cheap old V8 would still be cheaper in the long run. That's the rub, at the moment EV's are too expensive, you'll never get your money back in fuel saved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Posted by Rich too on 13/03/2019 07:14:27: Posted by Lima Hotel Foxtrot on 11/03/2019 16:57:24: Not many people can afford a £20-30k for commuting, and another car for longer journeys. Buying a cheap old V8 would still be cheaper in the long run. That's the rub, at the moment EV's are too expensive, you'll never get your money back in fuel saved. Not a fair comparison there's a big market for cars in the 20 to 40k bracket, quite a few 2nd hand Nissan Leafs for sale between 6 and 10k, Cheapest new Fiesta is now 16k. When we finally get round to replacing our 15 year old Petrol Colt it will probably be with an electric (and a 15yr old Colt would also be a much better 2nd hand buy than a cheap V8 ) Edited By Frank Skilbeck on 13/03/2019 08:25:47 Edited By Frank Skilbeck on 13/03/2019 08:26:36 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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