The Gov't, CAA, BMFA & UAV legislation thread

[Chris Berry]

I see that the CAA issued several exemptions on the 28th of October which require amending. One element was the requirement to carry proof of BMFA et.al membership and a copy of the relevant exemption. This is unlike the 400ft exemption which gives the same privileges to association members but does not ask that the individual carries proof. Will these clauses be removed from the new exemptions?

[Chris Berry]

Just a point of clarification please.

What are the deadlines for completion of the quiz for those who don’t hold an achievement certificate? Obviously registration can be done at BMFA renewal.

Is it registration then quiz in which case the individual won’t be able to do the quiz until after BMFA renewal/registration?

thanks

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

Andy - I pay my BMFA sub using the Go portal and not through the club, I hold an A certificate. Will the BMFA still collect the CAA fee from me and register me s a operator?

Yes, if thats what you choose to do.

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

Posted by Chris Berry on 02/11/2019 07:49:07:

Just a point of clarification please.

What are the deadlines for completion of the quiz for those who don’t hold an achievement certificate? Obviously registration can be done at BMFA renewal.

Is it registration then quiz in which case the individual won’t be able to do the quiz until after BMFA renewal/registration?

thanks

Currently the exemption from the CAA test which is being amended as it missed off the BPC and the online test exempts holders of A certs etc from the competency test requirements until 30th November. However we have asked that the amended exemption is until 31st December so everything can be tied in with renewals, I don't foresee that being a problem.

It will be online test first, which you will be able to take at any time not just when you decide to register with the CAA through the BMFA. You will also be able to renew and then add CAA registration later if you wish.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

Posted by Steve J on 02/11/2019 08:48:16:

Posted by Andy Symons - BMFA on 02/11/2019 08:26:45:

However we have asked that the amended exemption is until 31st December so everything can be tied in with renewals, I don't foresee that being a problem.

The CAA have issued an exemption that is valid until the 31st January and you have asked them to change it so that it is only valid until 31st December?

The CAA have issued a number of exemptions 1 is from registration which is until 31st January, another is from the competency requirements (its a separate exemption) which currently is only until 30th November. The reason for requesting that is extended until 31st December is so members can ensure they do the online test (if they need to) before they renew.

[Darran]

Posted by Andy Symons - BMFA on 01/11/2019 21:16:26:

3) Due to GDPR we doubt that the BMFA will be able to pass on Members details for registration with the CAA without their express permission. It may not be possible for the Club to give that permission on their behalf, we will wait & see.

As long as the club makes it clear that by paying the £9 they are giving consent to be registered with the CAA its not a GDPR problem. Just a tick box on the joining/renewal form.

Edited By Andy Symons - BMFA on 01/11/2019 21:16:42

This may be the case, but the club, BFMA and CAA have other responsibilities when storing our personal details under GDPR, have these all been addressed and the correct mechanisms in place, I would question If a club really knows what they are, or is geared for such things as a SAR request or right to be forgotten procedures. This however is not limited to the new registration, but it does heighten the risk.

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

Posted by Darran on 02/11/2019 09:12:57:

Posted by Andy Symons - BMFA on 01/11/2019 21:16:26:

3) Due to GDPR we doubt that the BMFA will be able to pass on Members details for registration with the CAA without their express permission. It may not be possible for the Club to give that permission on their behalf, we will wait & see.

As long as the club makes it clear that by paying the £9 they are giving consent to be registered with the CAA its not a GDPR problem. Just a tick box on the joining/renewal form.

Edited By Andy Symons - BMFA on 01/11/2019 21:16:42

This may be the case, but the club, BFMA and CAA have other responsibilities when storing our personal details under GDPR, have these all been addressed and the correct mechanisms in place, I would question If a club really knows what they are, or is geared for such things as a SAR request or right to be forgotten procedures. This however is not limited to the new registration, but it does heighten the risk.

Yes they have all been addressed.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

Posted by Steve J on 02/11/2019 09:19:21:

Posted by Andy Symons - BMFA on 02/11/2019 09:12:57:

The CAA have issued a number of exemptions 1 is from registration which is until 31st January, another is from the competency requirements (its a separate exemption) which currently is only until 30th November.

The 94F competency exemption (1326) is valid until 30th June.

Not if you don't already have a required competency. If you do not currently hold one you need to have one by 30th November. We have asked that is extended to 31st December for association members to give them time to take one, otherwise they will have to go through the CAA system.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

Will try to clarify

The exemption from 94F (must hold a CAA competency from 30th Nov) is for association members that hold a recognised achievement, they are exempt until 30th June.

For anyone without a recognised competency they must either pass a recognised achievement or take the CAA test by 30th November.

What we have asked for is an exemption that exempts association members that are non certificate holders from the requirement to hold a recognised competency until 31st December .

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

I must admit that I really don't see the point of this BMFA online test.

That's fine you are at liberty to take the CAA version if you wish as is anyone else.

The point is making the whole process as quick and easy as possible for BMFA members and giving them some options.

[Chris Berry]

Personally I think using the BMFA for every element is worthy. Not only is it a one stop shop and have they put a lot of work on and should be recognised accordingly but also it shows the CAA and DFT that members value their associations and that we’ll happily shun the CAA and DFT in favour of our associations.

[Chris Berry]

Posted by Andy Symons - BMFA on 02/11/2019 08:26:45:

Posted by Chris Berry on 02/11/2019 07:49:07:

Just a point of clarification please.

What are the deadlines for completion of the quiz for those who don’t hold an achievement certificate? Obviously registration can be done at BMFA renewal.

Is it registration then quiz in which case the individual won’t be able to do the quiz until after BMFA renewal/registration?

 

thanks

Currently the exemption from the CAA test which is being amended as it missed off the BPC and the online test exempts holders of A certs etc from the competency test requirements until 30th November. However we have asked that the amended exemption is until 31st December so everything can be tied in with renewals, I don't foresee that being a problem.

It will be online test first, which you will be able to take at any time not just when you decide to register with the CAA through the BMFA. You will also be able to renew and then add CAA registration later if you wish.

Thanks Andy, so members will have from the 5th Nov to 31st Dec to do the quiz and register/renew.

Is there any opportunity to amend the requirements for all members to keep documents on them at all?

maybe at sites where there are no uninvolved persons for example. Just a thought.

whilst it’s not a big deal, I know many of our members will see it as such!

Edited By Chris Berry on 02/11/2019 09:54:19

[Chris Berry]

3 days to go and still no mass media publicity for the Christmas toy brigade to take heed of!

[Martin_K]

Posted by Chris Berry on 02/11/2019 09:50:25:

Personally I think using the BMFA for every element is worthy. Not only is it a one stop shop and have they put a lot of work on and should be recognised accordingly but also it shows the CAA and DFT that members value their associations and that we’ll happily shun the CAA and DFT in favour of our associations.

Chris, There is the difference in your thinking and mine. I view registration and testing as simple, and a minor issue. I would rather resources of the BMFA were focused on the major issue of exemptions from the Open Category post June 2020. I accept you could be correct that BMFA members would rather conduct all business through the BMFA, I do not know enough members to judge.

Posted by Chris Berry on 02/11/2019 09:52:43:

Is there any opportunity to amend the requirements for all members to keep documents on them at all?

maybe at sites where there are no uninvolved persons for example. Just a thought.

whilst it’s not a big deal, I know many of our members will see it as such!

The thing I do know about is carrying permissions documents. Those of us who found our club sites inside expanded airport FRZ's have been working under a new regime requiring documentation to support your flying for months. Expectations of whether anyone will be checking depends on where in the country you are. The Metropolitan Police have turned up on two flying sites I use, one in respect of FRZ exlusions, the other in regards to FPV operations. Flyers operating legally are O.K., some do not stay within the law.

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

Posted by Chris Berry on 02/11/2019 09:52:43:

Thanks Andy, so members will have from the 5th Nov to 31st Dec to do the quiz and register/renew.

Is there any opportunity to amend the requirements for all members to keep documents on them at all?

maybe at sites where there are no uninvolved persons for example. Just a thought.

whilst it’s not a big deal, I know many of our members will see it as such!

Edited By Chris Berry on 02/11/2019 09:54:19

Hopefully yes members will have until 31st Dec to take the test and 31st Jan to register and renew.

I would suggest it's unlikely there will be a change about keeping docs on yourself, a matter of picking your battles I think as its really no big deal and perhaps copies of the exemptions etc can be kept in club huts etc.

[Chris Berry]

Posted by Andy Symons - BMFA on 02/11/2019 10:45:23:

Posted by Chris Berry on 02/11/2019 09:52:43:

Thanks Andy, so members will have from the 5th Nov to 31st Dec to do the quiz and register/renew.

Is there any opportunity to amend the requirements for all members to keep documents on them at all?

maybe at sites where there are no uninvolved persons for example. Just a thought.

whilst it’s not a big deal, I know many of our members will see it as such!

Edited By Chris Berry on 02/11/2019 09:54:19

Hopefully yes members will have until 31st Dec to take the test and 31st Jan to register and renew.

I would suggest it's unlikely there will be a change about keeping docs on yourself, a matter of picking your battles I think as its really no big deal and perhaps copies of the exemptions etc can be kept in club huts etc.

Thanks, I guess you're right. Doesn't fuss me, but I know some will be.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Chris Berry]

Posted by Steve J on 02/11/2019 10:56:07:

Posted by Martin_K on 02/11/2019 10:27:39:

I view registration and testing as simple, and a minor issue. I would rather resources of the BMFA were focused on the major issue of exemptions from the Open Category post June 2020.

+1

I've just had a read of the definitions of the EASA regs. Not sure I see an issue with the open category? Can someone point out what the concern is with it please?

[Bob Cotsford]

RE keeping documents on you, I'd suggest that keeping them in the glovebox of your car, ie readily accessible on-site, would be acceptable to most. It's where I've been keeping my BMFA and club membership cards and insurance for years.

Is it really such a big thing? Most of us are car drivers so we should be used to keeping the relevant documents ready to hand in the car. Just add your competency to those.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Chris Berry]

Posted by Bob Cotsford on 02/11/2019 11:24:23:

RE keeping documents on you, I'd suggest that keeping them in the glovebox of your car, ie readily accessible on-site, would be acceptable to most. It's where I've been keeping my BMFA and club membership cards and insurance for years.

Is it really such a big thing? Most of us are car drivers so we should be used to keeping the relevant documents ready to hand in the car. Just add your competency to those.

Yep i've been doing the same as well.

[Chris Berry]

Posted by Steve J on 02/11/2019 11:30:57:

Posted by Chris Berry on 02/11/2019 11:12:06:

Posted by Steve J on 02/11/2019 10:56:07:

Posted by Martin_K on 02/11/2019 10:27:39:

I view registration and testing as simple, and a minor issue. I would rather resources of the BMFA were focused on the major issue of exemptions from the Open Category post June 2020.

+1

I've just had a read of the definitions of the EASA regs. Not sure I see an issue with the open category? Can someone point out what the concern is with it please?

Potential problems for sites with public access, especially if the CAA gold plate the regulations.

Discussed in the locked 'CAA Update' topic on the 8th October.

Electronic conspicuity is another potential problem area.

Steve

Could be dealt with through exemptions. That's the way i'd go with it. It seems the CAA are sensible folks and now that Vere has been stamped on by her boss the CAA have been given a bit more freedom, probably as they wanted in the first place. Although its all to play for in coming months so who knows what will happen, as i'm sure the election in December won't be the last before June 2020.