F3A competition in the 1970's and 80's

[Chris Channon]

Posted by Barrie Lever on 21/05/2020 20:07:09:

Chris

Yes that is me !!

There never was a plan for the model but I can tell you that largely speaking it was a Pilot QB40 with the wing mounted on the bottom of the fuz and a canopy where the wing used to be.

It was that simple.

Regards

Barrie

Good morning, brill thank you Barrie. I don't suppose you have any pictures of a Warrior at all so i could attempt to build one? All my pictures were destroyed a while ago.

Thank you for your help

Chris Channon

[Nigel R]

Chris, if it really is a QB40 with the wing on the bottom, then there are several pdf plans on outerzone that might assist, try:

QB40 shoulder

**LINK**

and QB20 low winger:

**LINK**

[Chris Channon]

Nigel R,

Brilliant, thank you so much.

Have a great day,

Regards,

Chris.C.

[Richard Clark 2]

Posted by Barrie Lever on 22/05/2020 10:35:11:

Richard

Yes you are right Richard Sharman.

He is a very good friend of mine, in fact he emailed me this morning to say he is on the mend after a very serious illness, I will be speaking to him around lunchtime.

I think he is an Hon. member of the British Computer Society, like you say clever people.

Ian was flying up at Middle Wallop, don't know where he has migrated to now but he is flying.

I am afraid I have taken the models very seriously over the years but I have really enjoyed it and even after more than 40 years of competitive flying I am still itching to get out and fly a fast model.

Regards

Barrie

The fastest plane I've got is a 70 inch span hotliner, the Multiplex Grafitti, from the days when Multiplex made proper planes of glass and balsa with spruce spars.

Grossly overpowered with a geared Kontronik '480' size brushless motor it's probably the fastest plane at Beaulieu, will do high-speed 'snap' manouvers on demand, and with the flaperons slightly down it will float around for about an hour if you do another fast climb every time it gets near the ground until the battery runs out

It wasn't a successful model for Multiplex at the time it came out as motors to take advantage of its potential were not available then.

Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 22/05/2020 11:12:14

[Former Member]

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[Kevin Caton]

Hi Barrie

Albert Model in Brescia (albertmodel.com) has some original OPS and Rossi engines in the basement - a true aeromodellers' goldmine. Unfortunately you need to be proficient in Italian or French but google translate should be good enough. I visited the shop during the F3A World Championship last year and could have bought loads of old stuff - but there's only so much time and money!

The shop owner used to fly with the Rossi brothers in the 60s & 70s. A combination of schoolboy French and engine noises was just enough to make myself understood!

[Nigel R]

"I am afraid that there are no engines made like the OPS and Rossi's now"

Nelson? NovaRossi?

Arguably, high revving two strokes have had their day. Besides the fact of the electric dominance at small sizes, I can't imagine squeezing a 15k rpm 40 or 60 through the BMFA standard 82db noise test.

[Former Member]

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[Martin McIntosh]

I started in F3A with HP`s but a couple of days before a Nats I obtained one of the first six Webra Speeds in the country. One quick (very fast!) test flight convinced me to leave it in. Nice big round loops now and the judges wondered how I could keep up with it. Came second.

I then changed to OPS, same revs on the ground as the Webrs but the difference was in the air. T.C. looked at the porting and decided that as much fuel was being fired straight across to the exhaust as was being burnt so we filed the transfer ports at a severe angle upwards. This had the desired effect but also added 500 to the rpm which we did not really desire since noise was becoming an issue. The advanced exhaust port we also filed out made things even worse but by god did they go. Kavan pressure carbs. which were like dustbins, fed by a TK fuel pressure regulator invented by Terry C. and supplied by crankcase pressure. You could put the tank in the tail if you wished and it would make no difference. The motors could be leaned right out allowing two consecutive practice flights from only 12oz of fuel.

OPS adopted the mods. and renamed the motor Ursus Risonanza (resonant, tuned pipe).

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Never flew in comps but did fly Dave Smiths Super Dalotel with piped O.S 60 in, favourite model, passed my examiners test at Ponty with it, Don Valleys club field not suitable for it (they didn't like pattern models). Took Simon Howarth ? for his B test so he could fly comps, he did o.k i hear.

[Martin McIntosh]

There is a very good video of Doylestown 1971 on youtube, easy to find. I can get nothing on 1977 or 1979 as yet.

[Kevin Caton]

This thread could do with a bump to get it going again, so here are some names not yet mentioned from the late 1970s and early 80s. Some have already been mentioned and sadly some are no longer with us. Some of the others are still active but for the rest, where are they now?

Dave Smith

Dave Milner

Steve Burgess (still very active)

Ken Binks (still very active with model yatching)

Stuart Mellor (still active)

Steve Elias (went into jets very successfully)

Phil Stevens

Frank Dowling

Dave Hardaker (still flying I think?)

Colin Chapman

John Robinson

 

 

Those sadly no longer with us:

Geoff Franklin

Brian Brotherton

Clive Weller

Terry Westrop

Graham Briggs

Ray Brotherston

 

Sorry if I’ve missed anyone significant.

 

 

 

 

Edited By Kevin Caton on 28/05/2020 21:26:47

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Martin Dilly 1]

Slight thread drift here but more of a query from an outside observer of RC aerobatics. How is it that in both RC and CL aerobatics the UK usually places pretty low in the results at World Champs? Since Kenley in 1962, which I attended, and Sweden a few years later most of our teams haven't been near a podium. Could it be that British judging standards are different from those of most overseas nations? The BMFA do have a budget for training and excellence; has anyone considered funding an overseas judge or two to come here for a weekend to look at the way UK flyers perform?

[Martin McIntosh]

Don`t seem to be getting the latest posts on this for some reason.

Do not forget Mike Birch who has not been with us for a long time and that blighter Terry Cooper who beat me into second place at the Nats by one point out of about 4000.

He was also best man at my wedding and we spoke on the phone not long ago. He was a team member at least three times and flew at the TOC.

I must drop in to say hello next time I am in the Midlands.

I met Stu Foster at the Nats a few years ago, also at the funeral of Terry Watson who was a backbone of comps. in those days.

The old fly offs at the Nats were very enjoyable if nerve wracking. Main event of the weekend in front of the whole crowd. Even Dave Bishop was told to keep quiet so that the commentary did not distract the competitors, such as not counting through spins or rolls.

[Martin McIntosh]

MD,

I have always thought that our judges are a bit too lenient with their scores leading competitors to believe that they are doing better than they actually are. At my first W/C my eyes were opened very wide at the difference in flying standards between us and many of the others. It is not necessarily due to lack of effort but as I stated above the financing of a trip abroad and general lack of trade backing possibly has a lot to do with it.

Even when I was at it and the BOM rule was in force we all knew that the top flyers did not have to worry about building models because most of it was done for them.

For instance, Team Japan, Mr OS and Mr Futaba on their luxury bus as part of the pit crew. We had wives or girlfriends and maybe one helper plus a large overdraft at the end of it.

[Former Member]

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[Kevin Caton]

Good points from both Martins!

In the past you needed to be able to build a straight light model, have reliable radio equipment and a good motor. Then, you had to go out and fly a lot. Nowadays, the radio is fantastic, the electric motors are totally relies le and consistent and anyone can buy the same airframe as the top pilots use. People all over the world are able to do this - then have the time and enthusiasm to put in 600-800 practice flights each year. Try counting how many flights you do in a year and you will see just what a commitment this is - flying 4 flights a day 5 days a week through the main season. All this comes before we get to discuss judging standards.

Some of us regularly travel to mainland Europe to compete at World Cup events and as such are known by the international judges. Yes, we don’t get scored quite as highly as at home, but when we talk to the other pilots, they have the same experience. As the competition becomes more significant, the judging criteria get slightly tougher. To address a specific point by Martin Dilly, we do get some funding from the BMFA training and excellence fund to go towards the cost of competing abroad.

We do have a French F3A judge with multiple World Championships experience who lives in the UK and regularly judges here. Unfortunately at present he is the only non-flying judge in the UK, so that gives us an immediate problem.

We can’t seem to get the “young guns” interested in F3A. It’s a bit “catch-22” as we don’t do very well internationally, so it’s seen as a fringe interest and a bit boring to watch. There is more recognition and exposure in show flying - large scale aerobatics, jets etc.

Any suggestions?

Edited By Kevin Caton on 29/05/2020 07:39:15

Edited By Kevin Caton on 29/05/2020 07:39:50

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Martin McIntosh]

Interesting to note that our scale boys are also somewhat in the doldrums, strange because as a nation we are known for our inventiveness and creativity.

One problem is that when something is down to individual judge`s opinions things get difficult, i.e. a snappy or slowish entry/exit roll rate or in the case of scale the aircraft type. I may well worship Spits. and Hurries but other nationalities may not.

Thank goodness that pylon is decided by a stopwatch only, although what happened to the four at a time as it was when I dabbled in it?

Youngsters, understandingly, go more for helis/quads because these more closely resemble the computer games which they are used to.

The current format of F3A is to me very boring to watch and quite incomprehensible so what must it be like for the public?

(Don`t want to get into another argument about that).

[Former Member]

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[Martin McIntosh]

That was all part of the fun then. Four screaming K&B`s waiting for the flag to drop sent the adrenaline levels sky high. Had my fair share of mid airs too. Another Nats highlight was the pylon final right in front of everyone, not shuffled to some far corner.

The 1970`s schedules were and still are many people`s preference, hence the UKCAA. At one event we counted over 45 models. Easy enough to do but very hard to do properly, plus there is an almost unlimited choice of designs to build, some now re kitted and they do not cost a second mortgage to make.

When I stopped flying comps. it was mainly due to having everything, and I mean everything, stolen after the 1979 W/C, plus going to the Nats to watch the then new turnaround schedule which looked to me like a load of rookies competing for the first time. Very rushed and haphazzard looking.

Zero interest.

[Richard Clark 2]

All interesting stuff. But within reason the possibly lower 'quality' of UK judges will still end up with our best F3A flyers.

And just how many 'top' judges ARE there in Austria or Liechtenstein

[Kevin Caton]

Hi Richard

The answer to your question is two in each of those countries.

I think coaching is a bigger problem here - I get most of mine from people in other countries.

Kevin

[Neil Russell 2]

I stumbled across this thread whilst reminiscing about times past and the name Barrie Lever .... approaching 50 now but when I was a spotty teenager I became a member of Gateshead and District Model aircraft Club where me and my Brother learned to fly... we became friendly with 2 guys called Dick Wilson and Wilf Johns. Dick and Wildf introduced me to the world of Club 20... When I had become more proficient at flying I aquired a flair Dara and trracer vitesse from Dick and also one of his spare OPS21 engines which ran with a modified Irvine Tuned pipe.... I do remember the process of sending engines to barrie for spares etc and getting the letters back with the engine.. often a Bollocking for burring the screws on the cylinder heads.. One particular snotty letter was when I sent an engine back with a bent conrod for repair and a letter telling me off for using a solid roll hardened roll pin rather than the original type hollow ones Anyhoew my second hand engine was a good un and we got 21500 RPM out of it on a good day though generally about 18-19 was usual with a Graupner 7 x 6 My last Race was a meeting which was held in about 85 - 86 ish at Old Dalby where my racing dreams came to an end after an argument with a Big Oak tree.... Its nice to see you still engoying the racing Mr Lever and I wish you well.. happy days as they say and I wonder if you remember Dick and Wilf ??