Martyn K Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 Yaay I can see it. Thanks Danny Did you ever post a link fir your eBay Silk supplier? Edited By Martyn K on 11/11/2019 18:46:27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 The trouble with this thread is that it's way, way beyong my pay grade I'm just awestruck by the beauty of this model construction. It doesn't help that I think the Hawker Nimrod is a great biplane (not as great as the Sopwith Pup, of course but ...) So sorry for not commenting Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 Following every post Danny your work is to aspire to and certainly drives me to improve ,thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 11, 2019 Author Share Posted November 11, 2019 Thanks for the terrif comments Chaps, but to prove once again Martian I am completely falable the silk is not right. And is really rough. Even after a couple of coats of dope I should have started with a known constant and that is genuine Esaki silk. Learning a new technique with the wrong materials is fraught with perils. It doesn't matter too much in this instance as this section is under the wing, a bit out of sight and I am learning. I have a much finer weave silk, probably still not the right stuff, which I have just tried to attach to the rudder, it is at least smoother, but I had to use dope to stick it down. And all the sages say Wallpaper paste is easier than dope. So again this isn't quite right. I am tempted to contact Mike Woodhouse of free flight supplies and see if he has some Esaki silk, I could at least perfect the technique, even if it is just on the rudder Anyway if it were easy everybody would do it! Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 Sometimes I really do worry about my sanity. Several months ago I spent a small fortune on silks trying to match Esaki. I have covered the centre section in the same rubbish I did the cabane struts in.... Doh!! I have just rummaged through my silks and have covered the rudder in another silk that looks right but i think is polyester as it fluffs like crazy. Still not right. I just waded back through the thread and we have been through all this and I ended up contacting Bill Dennis, who pointed me at Haringtons, as Alan had done..... I really don't know how I remember to get up some days. Anyway am about to tissue the tailplane, and we will try the Harringtons silk with wallpaper paste on that.... stand by. I may even video the process for Martin Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 I bought Esaki Silk from Mike Woodhouse (Freeflight Supplies). Only heavyweight is available now Danny. I bought it for my FF Scale Bucker but am worried that it may be too heavy. Rather expensive as well.. Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Just looked on the Harrington Website. Do you know what material you should be looking for? The only silk I could find was described as medium heavy and is very expensive.. **LINK** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 I contacted Mike last night and he said he had some Esaki lightweight left, but not much. A bit of green apparently. £18 a pack, which I think is roughly a sq/mtr. The Silk that Bill pointed me too is made by Harrington, I had to ring them and ask for the specific type as it is not on the website. 4202i is the catalogue number you need Martyn. Not a lot cheaper than Mike, so it is up to you. I am in the middle of making a video showing the stuff in action. Hopefully be online later today. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 Okay the tissue video is in the can, will be online shortly. really only to be viewed if you cannot sleep, its an hour long and took three times that to film and edit...... Still it is keeping the old skills, or at least my take on them alive. There was so much more I could have said, but never mind...... I have spent the day doing lots of tissue work, almost getting the hang of it now While I was busy working, these two reprobates sank up to their elbows in my building board..... Many thanks to Dave Banks, once again creating some real works of art Cheers Danny Edited By Danny Fenton on 12/11/2019 20:15:51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 Well I know you can't wait.....if you can't sleep this is for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Fane Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Danny Thanks for the video, very informative. Now to have a go myself. cheers Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 Been messing with more of the silk. I am really not impressed with the finish I am getting with the wallpaper past. Just tore of the last lot and have started again with a much weaker solution of paste, lets see how that goes. The nicest results so far have been obtained using the £5.99 Chiffon silk (I doubt it actually is silk behaves like polyester, and the price would reflect that perhaps?) That is difficult to get the edges to wrap around unless at least three coats of dope have been applied. But at the moment the chiffon is giving a better finish that the Harrington silk..... The rudder covered in Chiffon (silk?) and one coat of dope. Just waiting for this last test using wallpaper paste to dry..... Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 This is all proving very tedious, but interesting none the less. I have sacrificed a small square of Esaki lightweight Silk, that Andy Sephton kindly sent me. I have pasted that on as a test, and it went on easily and looks great. I am sure the issue is the silk i am using is too coarse. So even though it is recommended by Bill Dennis, its not a substitute for Esaki. Harrington 4020i Esaki Lightweight silk. The section of Esaki looks more like a second layer of tissue, and not as hard wearing as the cheap chiffon over tissue. I am tempted to now draw a line under the silk over tissue as Esaki is expensive, difficult to get, and not terribly strong. Do I persevere with perfecting this newly discovered technique of polyester chiffon over tissue. I think I might..... Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 Part 2 of the silk over tissue video: Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Bennett Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 i cant get my silkish to go on at all smooth. have given up and thrown the model in the bin. Tony B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 Hi Tony, well my lovely 3.5 momme silk wont either. Did you find some genuine Esaki? It goes on like tissue. So you are in good company. But please don't bin the model, there's a good chap we will fly these together next year. So I have spent another £20 on even more silk. Getting fed up with the costs..... This time I am trying to find something more like a silk tissue or gauze. Andy Sephton has been asking all his friends and the conscensus of opinion is that Esaki is rare, expensive, but the right product for the job. If only we could find an equivalent... So as an alternate I have tried, double layering tissue, with opposite grain. I have heard some of the free flight guys do this. certainly seems a lot tougher, but would a heavyweight tissue be better? If anybody has any thoughts then please chip in? Alas if you watched the video you will see that the polyester chiffon worked, however, I have no idea where it came from, and I haven't enough to do the whole model Mmmm a thought has just struck me.... could it be nylon I wonder..... Anyway Bed time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 Okay following the epiphany and Doh! moment, of course the material is nylon. And as soon I made that leap was able to find the receipt for it! I bought it back in 2014 for a control line project. So maybe nylon over tissue is an idea? Nylon on its own really sucks up dope, but with the tissue underneath it is fine with just one coat. I blame Martian for all these senior moments.... Anyway i am going to have a go at stretching a nylon stocking over a doped and tissue covered wing, see how that goes You never know I may have invented a new technique, or have you seen it done before? Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 I feel so terribly hurt 😭 ,anyway think of all the practice you are getting . In the past i successfully used lightweight ripstop nylon as used for kites i think fixed in place with dope then doped the surface it produced a drum tight skin with excellent strength 💪 ,👽 may the force be with me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 We used to use double covering of lightweight modelspan as a very good alternative to hw modelspan Danny. It was a little lighter as less dope was used but tougher and less prone to splitting. In free flight, the latest material to use is the stuff they cover kites with. I have forgotten what the trade name is. Comes in a wonderful selection of colours and is very light but I think it has a separate cross weave which would be difficult to hide. Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Can't imagine what your wife thinks of this silk fetish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 Some interesting ideas chaps, thanks for that. Yes ripstop nylon, good shout Martian/Martyn I have finished applying tissue to all the tail surfaces, and am about to cover the rear of the fuselage. So more of an update later Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 Was a little overambitious covering the rear of the fus, tried to do the sides and top in one piece..... Just have to see what happens when it dries. May have to take it all of and start again..... Fingers firmly crossed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 If anybody is curious how that went here is an hour long video. No commentary just a "fly on the workshop wall" video. They are interesting to do, so I will try and do more. The tissue was attached on each side at this lower longeron, and at the forward sheeting, and the former F11. I felt it important that the tissue was not attached over the longerons until after the whole area had been water shrunk. Unfortunately I was too ambitous in trying to do such a large and complex shape in one go, and had a nasty loose area. I had no choice but to cut the tissue down the centre, attach the tissue neatly to the longerons either side of centre and then patch the gap. Its a shame but there you go. The rib tapes will probably be from thick tissue. They are quite subtle on the pre-pinked tape aircraft. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 After adding two coats of 50/50 dope/thinner and realising that the pores of the tissue were still open I spoke to Andy S. He told me that it was the tissue its not the best. I had a look through my stock and found some genuine Jap Tissue. The grain on this tissue is vere close, and the tissue more like wax paper! Nedless to say after an hour I peeled it off and abandoned the idea. I have always applied tissue wet, and brushed neat dope through the edges of the tissue to stick it down. With Jap tissue, you dope the airframe as usual, but because the dope will not penetrate the paper, you need to use thinners to soften the dope beneath and use that so stick down the tissue. Anyway by this time I had applied a second layer of my Tetley teabag tissue. One coat of dope and it was pretty well sealed. I will give it a couple of coats of banana oil in the morning Soon time to break out the L285 resin I reckon... Cheers Danny Edited By Danny Fenton on 15/11/2019 23:47:46 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Fane Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 Hi Danny Thanks for the tissueing guidance. I only have Yorkshire tea bag tissue - will that work ? Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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