High performance lipos

[Graham Bowers]

Please share your personal experiences of the closest to holy grail LiPos you've used in the 6S 4500 to 5500 mAh ish range. Least voltage sag when pulling around 60 to 70 Amps, light as a feather and last forever with good care. For the purpose of this exercise, price is not an issue. 

Thanks.

[MattyB]

Anecdotal single points of data from individuals are pointless, sorry. The RCG thread where a relatively small number of very knowledgeable testers have evaluated lipos over many cycles under scientifically controlled conditions is far more instructive…

 

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1767093-Battery-Load-Test-Comparisons

Edited September 11, 2023 by MattyB

[Peter Jenkins]

I've only had experience of OnBo 5S 4800 packs Graham but I've found them to be very good.  I have just been sent a 6S by mistake (OnBo had marked it as a 5S and until I looked at the balance plug I didn't twig but I thought the weight of a 5S 5200 at 591 g was a bit high!  The genuine 5S 5200 weighed in at 541 g which was surprisingly lower than the average of 570 g for my 5S 4800 packs.  The max current draw is usually between 80 and 85 amps but not for longer than about 3 or 4 secs as otherwise you are out of the vertical box!

 

Just seen Matty's post.  I am aware that all of those who are using OnBo LiPos have been happy with them.   Their IR is low and they have been good for well over 150 cycles.  One has packs that are over 200 cycles but they are no longer able to fly a full FAI(P) schedule so he keeps them for test purposes.  Roaring Top also seems to have a good name.  I have one pair of 5S 5200s but only around 30 cycles and looking good.

 

The problem seems to be that even "good quality" LiPos can be less than good.  Better brands will replace the battery if you have a problem early on i.e. the infant mortality end of the bath tub curve.  However, I've had cheapo LiPos that have lasted well past 100 cycles and met my £1 per cycle benchmark.  

Edited September 11, 2023 by Peter Jenkins

[Learner]

5 minutes ago, MattyB said:

Anecdotal single points of data from individuals are pointless, sorry. The RCG thread where a relatively small number of very knowledgeable testers have evaluated lipos over many cycles under scientifically controlled conditions are far more instructive…

 

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1767093-Battery-Load-Test-Comparisons

He asked for personal experiences thanks

[MattyB]

2 hours ago, Learner said:

He asked for personal experiences thanks

I know what he asked for, but I’m sticking to my guns; there is little point in making purchasing decisions based on individual data points because of the way the lipo market works.
 

Rather than posting on it again here’s an old post I made from 2016 regarding inconsistency between packs of the same brand over time. This is something the RCG thread I linked to shows is still a relatively frequent occurrence today…

 

[Richard Wills 2]

Switched to Optipower 50c ultras in my 700 helis a couple of years ago and never looked back, don't use anything else now.

[Graham Bowers]

13 hours ago, MattyB said:

Anecdotal single points of data from individuals are pointless, sorry. The RCG thread where a relatively small number of very knowledgeable testers have evaluated lipos over many cycles under scientifically controlled conditions is far more instructive…

 

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1767093-Battery-Load-Test-Comparisons

When acquiring  knowledge I prefer to take in to account a wide variety of sources in order to gain a "big picture" view of the subject. The RCG thread I'm well aware of**, people I meet in person at my club and elsewhere,  other internet forums. One anecdote is one data point, however all data points have value, in my opinion, as they fit somewhere in the big picture.

 

**The RCG testing thread, whilst technically excellent, isn't exhaustive in terms of brands available in the UK.

 

[Graham Bowers]

11 hours ago, MattyB said:

I know what he asked for, but I’m sticking to my guns; there is little point in making purchasing decisions based on individual data points because of the way the lipo market works.
 

Rather than posting on it again here’s an old post I made from 2016 regarding inconsistency between packs of the same brand over time. This is something the RCG thread I linked to shows is still a relatively frequent occurrence today…

 

Thanks for that, interesting reading.

 

Best not to worry too much about how I make my mind up, to be honest. My time in quality management included training as a 6 sigma black belt and a diploma in quality management, so the concept of variation is something I've lived. However there's no way you'd have known that.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Graham Bowers

[Graham Bowers]

14 hours ago, Peter Jenkins said:

I've only had experience of OnBo 5S 4800 packs Graham but I've found them to be very good.  I have just been sent a 6S by mistake (OnBo had marked it as a 5S and until I looked at the balance plug I didn't twig but I thought the weight of a 5S 5200 at 591 g was a bit high!  The genuine 5S 5200 weighed in at 541 g which was surprisingly lower than the average of 570 g for my 5S 4800 packs.  The max current draw is usually between 80 and 85 amps but not for longer than about 3 or 4 secs as otherwise you are out of the vertical box!

 

Just seen Matty's post.  I am aware that all of those who are using OnBo LiPos have been happy with them.   Their IR is low and they have been good for well over 150 cycles.  One has packs that are over 200 cycles but they are no longer able to fly a full FAI(P) schedule so he keeps them for test purposes.  Roaring Top also seems to have a good name.  I have one pair of 5S 5200s but only around 30 cycles and looking good.

 

The problem seems to be that even "good quality" LiPos can be less than good.  Better brands will replace the battery if you have a problem early on i.e. the infant mortality end of the bath tub curve.  However, I've had cheapo LiPos that have lasted well past 100 cycles and met my £1 per cycle benchmark.  

Thanks Peter. I'm currently using OnBo 6S4200's in my MythoS 50 however am wondering if I should have gone for more capacity, 5000 ish for example.

A 6 minute flight leaves around 15% capacity left, so I usually come in at around 5 minutes.

I'm around 20 flights in, so there is every possibility I'm not making best use of the available capacity, in terms of propeller selection and throttle control. So I'm doing some background reading in parallel with testing. I'll be getting a ModellBau sensor too.

My OnBo's came from Bondaero however Chris only does 6S in the 4200 mAh capacity. Where do yours come from please?

[Graham Bowers]

11 hours ago, Richard Wills 2 said:

Switched to Optipower 50c ultras in my 700 helis a couple of years ago and never looked back, don't use anything else now.

Thanks. I know a few others who swear by Optipower, too.

[Chris Walby]

Only my very limited experience of using a few different labels over the last 6 years and about 1400 flights, so what do I know. Bearing in mind supply chain issues limit the choice.

 

My vote is GNB from HobbyRC

• Perform well in high discharge applications (4S3300 at 120A in the Focke Stick and a good few edf's), don't get voltage sag or puff
• They seem to have gained capacity and reduced weight compared with older types so I think their has been a bit of technology improvements
• For the space in the model and weight I can normally go up a capacity (measured recharge and it is correct) so a bit of win win.

PS IMO you can do as much lab testing as you want, the proof is in the field testing over a longer period 😉

 

 

[Peter Jenkins]

7 minutes ago, Graham Bowers said:

Thanks Peter. I'm currently using OnBo 6S4200's in my MythoS 50 however am wondering if I should have gone for more capacity, 5000 ish for example.

A 6 minute flight leaves around 15% capacity left, so I usually come in at around 5 minutes.

I'm around 20 flights in, so there is every possibility I'm not making best use of the available capacity, in terms of propeller selection and throttle control. So I'm doing some background reading in parallel with testing. I'll be getting a ModellBau sensor too.

My OnBo's came from Bondaero however Chris only does 6S in the 4200 mAh capacity. Where do yours come from please?

Have sent you a PM.

[MattyB]

1 hour ago, Graham Bowers said:

Best not to worry too much about how I make my mind up, to be honest. My time in quality management included training as a 6 sigma black belt and a diploma in quality management, so the concept of variation is something I've lived. However there's no way you'd have known that.

 

Snap! Also spent a number of years in L6S teams doing process optimisation in support services (Finance, Procurement, IT etc.), though that is in my distant past now, as I've transitioned fully to IT Security. Part of my brain is always looking for those 8 wastes, though! 😉

[Graham Bowers]

21 hours ago, Chris Walby said:

Only my very limited experience of using a few different labels over the last 6 years and about 1400 flights, so what do I know. Bearing in mind supply chain issues limit the choice.

 

My vote is GNB from HobbyRC

• Perform well in high discharge applications (4S3300 at 120A in the Focke Stick and a good few edf's), don't get voltage sag or puff
• They seem to have gained capacity and reduced weight compared with older types so I think their has been a bit of technology improvements
• For the space in the model and weight I can normally go up a capacity (measured recharge and it is correct) so a bit of win win.

PS IMO you can do as much lab testing as you want, the proof is in the field testing over a longer period 😉

 

 

Interesting. I see GNB do several "C" values, are your comments about any particular one of their offerings please?

[Chris Walby]

2 hours ago, Graham Bowers said:

Interesting. I see GNB do several "C" values, are your comments about any particular one of their offerings please?

I normally go for the 100C versions (all of the various cell/capacities I have), but super demanding situations would be tempted for the higher C rating. 

 

For 6S5000 at 70 you are not really pushing the battery that hard (even flying at WOT for the entire flight!) so I would go for 

[Peter Jenkins]

For F3A aerobatic use, which is what this is for I understand, I don't see much point in going for that high a C rating.  20C is perfectly adequate (good for up to 100 amps) although 25C to 35C are also commonly used.  I rarely see more than 90 amps max current draw but the more usual max is 80 - 85 amps and then for usually no more than 3 secs.  That's because the max current draw is in the vertical and 3 secs will see you at the top of the aerobatic box once you've levelled out.  The weight penalty of higher C ratings is not worth it IMHO.

If you fly ducted fan jets then that's a very different case.  In F3A you spend most of the time at half power.