FlyinFlynn Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Looking at you photo of the steering arm I would be concerned that there is not enough 'meat' left in the rudder post after drilling it out for the bolt. I think normally you just file a flat in the face of the shaft for the grub screw to sit it and locktite it in place. It might be too late now, maybe consider silver soldering the steering arm to the rudder post once you have it centered? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Fox Posted February 10 Author Share Posted February 10 YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS Hi all I am hoping to get some ideas on how to hinge the ailerons as I have not had any experience on this type of aileron Would you use a taped hinge ??, although how practical and enduring would it turn out to be. Cheers Steve NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Fox Posted February 10 Author Share Posted February 10 YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS Hi all I am hoping to get some ideas on how to hinge the ailerons as I have not had any experience on this type of aileron Would you use a taped hinge ??, although how practical and enduring would it turn out to be. Cheers Steve NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Rickett 102 Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 Steve, On a model like this, I'd advise to use a 'proper' hinge, not tape or mylar. I assume you will be covering the model and painting it rather than covering in film. If that's the case then its best to be able to separate the hinges for covering and painting, and for any subsequent work should it be necessary in the future. Small hinges which are glued in but with removable pins are are available through the modelling outlets, the one in the middle is a Kavan hinge (widely distributed), or you could use brass doll's house hinges which would need some hardwood, or ply, inserting to accept the screws. Here are some examples. Three or four per surface would suffice for your model and could equally be used on the rudder and elevators. If you use the removable pin type and you feel so inclined, the pins could be substituted by a length of wire which goes through all the hinges, this method is sometimes easier if you need to constantly remove a control surface - remove a rudder for transport, for example. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Fox Posted February 10 Author Share Posted February 10 2 hours ago, John Rickett 102 said: Steve, On a model like this, I'd advise to use a 'proper' hinge, not tape or mylar. I assume you will be covering the model and painting it rather than covering in film. If that's the case then its best to be able to separate the hinges for covering and painting, and for any subsequent work should it be necessary in the future. Small hinges which are glued in but with removable pins are are available through the modelling outlets, the one in the middle is a Kavan hinge (widely distributed), or you could use brass doll's house hinges which would need some hardwood, or ply, inserting to accept the screws. Here are some examples. Three or four per surface would suffice for your model and could equally be used on the rudder and elevators. If you use the removable pin type and you feel so inclined, the pins could be substituted by a length of wire which goes through all the hinges, this method is sometimes easier if you need to constantly remove a control surface - remove a rudder for transport, for example. Thanks very much awesome advice Cheers Steve NZ 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Fox Posted February 10 Author Share Posted February 10 23 hours ago, FlyinFlynn said: Looking at you photo of the steering arm I would be concerned that there is not enough 'meat' left in the rudder post after drilling it out for the bolt. I think normally you just file a flat in the face of the shaft for the grub screw to sit it and locktite it in place. It might be too late now, maybe consider silver soldering the steering arm to the rudder post once you have it centered? Yes excellent idea, will do for sure Cheers Steve NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Fox Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 Hi all Not much action over the last several days as I ha e been pressed into service removing a large area of bricks from a footpath at home to make way for a new concrete one Anyway most of the spare time has been spent on researching colour schemes and paint codes to match the era of the Morane Saulnier circa 1917- 1918. Whilst I am not a pursist in achieving a close close scale look for my planes, I do try to get a sence of it in the final build. I gave the rudder a spray over the last few days, mostly to see how it paints on to the fabric. Below is some paper strips over a pva glue line which I have allowed to dry, the paper strip was glue on and once the initial grab of the glue to the paper. I rubbed off some of paper strip to leave a thiner slice. The goal was just to make it noticeable once paint.On the edges of the rudder I used pva to lightly place some simulated stitching pattern. Again I just wanted it to be just noticeable. Also the edging has had several coats of paint to give it a slightly raised look as in the full size. I am happy enough with what the first coat achieved and the colour is ok to start with. Full size Morane saulnier rudder Have a great day Cheers Steve NZ 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Fox Posted March 8 Author Share Posted March 8 Hi all ,not much to report this week as lots of yard work going on, heading into the autumn now, so firewood is the order of the day to get stored away for winter. You guys will be moving towards early spring almost I guess Still experimenting with colours for the Morane trying to get a reasonable match for the original French 5 colour camouflage scheme. Should start tohave the fuselage covered in the coming week. Just have the rear tail skid to make and a good sand down and dust off. Starting to get the hang of the Koverall now after a bit of trail and error. Cheers for now Steve Fox NZ 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Fox Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 My sole effort over the weekend! 1 tail cone produced. A few lighting holes, saving weight where I can Cheers Steve NZ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Fox Posted March 16 Author Share Posted March 16 Hi all Well again a busy week in the yard, I have a list of projects or should I say demands from the one who dreams up all the ideas. But after 42 years I just get on with it!. Most of my spare time has been spent on going over the pull pull for the rudder and elevator to make sure everything is in order. Also tidied up the exit holes so they will be a nice tidy affair But the great thing is I have started to cover the fuselage with the Koverall!!. I feel like a dress maker doing it with all the fabric around the fuselage. Going on nicely now that I have the hang of if after a unsure start not having worked with it before. So that's all this week Oh I found a couple of Morane Saulnier AI pic that I hadn't seen before online Cheers Steve NZ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyinFlynn Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 Oh... how I wish I still had mine. Talk about photos pulling at the heart strings! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Fox Posted March 17 Author Share Posted March 17 Yes Flyin Flynn I really like this type. It has it all going on Good looks and could have been good competition against the German fighters if it hadn't been withdrawn because of structural issues which lead to several deaths with the wing folding in flight. The pilots that did get an opportunity to fly it liked it. I think to it was over looked by the British by poor documentation from Haigs staff. Haig stated in notation he didn't want it. It is thought that he mistook it for another variation that was a trainer ??. After the wars end several came into private hands and actually set a world record for consecutive loops by one pilot!. Another one was involved in air racing and that currently resides in France. I love the colour scheme for it. Cheers Steve 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyinFlynn Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 There are a few Moraine Saulniers close to my neck of the woods at the Musee Volant Salis here in France. They include the following - Morane Type H13 (replica) Morane-Saulnier MS.138 Ep.2 Morane Saulnier MS.185 Morane Saulnier MS.230 Morane Saulnier MS.315 Morane Saulnier MS.317 x2 Morane Saulnier MS502 Criquet ..... none are a pretty as the A1 though (IMHO). I had to look twice at your first photo, it looked like it was fitted with a bubble canopy 🤩 how cool would that be! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Fox Posted March 18 Author Share Posted March 18 Hi FlyinFlynn thanks for the link ,I will definitely be taking a look tonight. I think a bubble canopy would work well.. Do you know much about using dope? I have some thinners for some strong dope I want to use. I assume the thinner will lessen the strength of it as it is a powerful brew. Your thoughts would be appreciated Cheers Steve NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Rickett 102 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Steve, As you're using Koverall, which is heat shrinkable, you do not need to use a shrinking dope. A shrinking dope will carry on shrinking long after its dried - possibly for months, albeit at a much reduced rate, however it can cause warps to materialise which weren't there when first covered. Non-shrinking dope will still cause the fabric to shrink but not by very much. Having already tautened the fabric with heat, the dope is there to fill the weave and make the fabric air-proof. Koverall has quite a loose weave compared to other polyesters so may need a few coats of thinned dope to completely fill the weave, The thinning doesn't reduce the effectiveness of the dope, only the viscosity. Your model is quite large and you're going to need more than normal modelling size cans, I'd say at least 1 litre of dope. I suggest you contact one of the full size restoration companies in NZ, of which there are a few, and ask where they get their supplies from. You could also ask where they source fabric cement from, this is purpose made for the job of covering. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Fox Posted March 18 Author Share Posted March 18 Thank you for your advice John, that's awesome. I wondered if that was the case about the strength side of it. Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Fox Posted March 20 Author Share Posted March 20 Hi John I contacted a supplier and they can supply non taughtening dope in a quart which I am not sure how much that is in volume, but I will look it up. Not too badly price so will get it. Apart from that the covering of the fuselage has gone well. A couple of troublesome bits around the tail skid but easily resolved. Just couldn't seem to get a good bond to the Balsa there. Cheers Steve NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Rickett 102 Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 Steve, That's good news. A quart is a quarter of a US gallon = 946ml, so near enough to a litre when estimating how much you'll need. I would strongly suggest getting fabric cement and its reducer (thinner) from the supplier if they have it, its purpose made for the job so will make the task of adhering the covering so much easier. Ask if there is an instruction sheet for the fabric cement - to tell you how much thinning is required for initial application and then adhering the covering. The instructions are unlikely to be on the can, so best to know the start points for thinning before lashing on the stuff! If stored correctly, dope will not deteriorate in the can over many years. Fabric cement, or at least the stuff I use, will discolour in the can over time but is still useable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Fox Posted March 20 Author Share Posted March 20 Thank you for all the information, I have not used this method of covering before, but I like how it is turning out!. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrman Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 If you're using Imperial (UK) measurements a quart is 1.1365 litres. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Fox Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 Happy as Hi all, wellvery pleased with the results o the fuselage. Thank you guys for all the great advice, it is well received. I took a break from the fuselage for a couple of days and decided to work on the cockpit as it will be getting closed in more and maybe awkward to get at. Not overly pleased with the hinges, but all I had. Thee hinges with the pva glue once dry will get doted with brass paint for another area. Secondly is that I realized that the two machine guns kinda of sit low in a bit of a trough in front of the cowl, so I will need to alter that area to suit. Not that I am a scale perfectionist, but I do like to try where I can to get the look right. I managed to discover some brass flanges which fit snugly over the brass tubing for the wheels which looking at the full size seems to be a good fit. Well that's about it for now. The weather is cooling off and we have already lit the fire in the evening several times now. Seems to be an early autumn this year. The summer wasn't much to write about, mostly cloudy and dry. Cheers Steve NZ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Impressive work there! Just starting to get warmer here - heating actually stayed off this morning.. fingers crossed you have a mild winter (so you don't 'freeze in the workshop), and we actually get some sun and dry weather.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Fox Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 Hi Yes ,you will be coming out the other side into spring , Jealous!! Thank you for your comment 🙏 Cheers Steve NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Fox Posted April 8 Author Share Posted April 8 Hi all Just a brief update on the build over the last few weeks. Once again the jobs in the yard have slowed me down. My flying buddies ,40 thousand odd bees have been flat-out making a ton of the Golden nectar. About 40 kgs. I thought it was going to be a poor year given the dry cloudy summer we had. Most of it will be given away to family and friends over the next few months, there is never any shortage of honey lovers. Back to the Morane A1. The fuselage is primed off and very pleased with the results. I am at the stage where I need to close up the cockpit area to move forward. So I decided to do some of the cockpit detail which has consumed rather a lot of time over the last two weeks making lots of small things. I posted a few pictures of the instrument panel a couple of weeks ago so here is an update. Also I worked on the wheels to give them a more detailed look. I came to realize that the Williams Brothers wheels are not really scale so to speak. Again I am not wanting to be exactly perfect in the detail, but to make a good effort. Well that's about it for now, a little fly out at the field on Sunday. Certainly getting cooler now Cheers Steve NZ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Nice work! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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