Ranger 600

[Pufferman]

Been using Ranger 600’s to teach myself to fly. They are stable with gyro so much so that I have had 3 flyaways. 
However in advanced mode it becomes unstable and I have great difficulty keeping it up. 
I have only recently seen one review noting this.Should I move on to something larger and more stable?

[Learner]

15 minutes ago, Pufferman said:

Been using Ranger 600’s to teach myself to fly. They are stable with gyro so much so that I have had 3 flyaways. 
However in advanced mode it becomes unstable and I have great difficulty keeping it up. 
I have only recently seen one review noting this.Should I move on to something larger and more stable?

The ranger is so stable they fly away on there own but when you fly without you cant control it?

No I dont think your ready for a bigger heavier more dangerous  model.

[Andy Gates]

No real sense in going bigger, it will just make it more expensive.

 

Can you clarify the modes you have been flying in please?

As I understand there are 3 modes, beginner, intermediate and fully manual.

 

If you have learned to fly under beginner mode, then there is a degree of relearning how to fly when stepping up to other modes.

 

Beginner mode you let go of the sticks and the plane automatically levels itself. It also limits how much the plane can roll and dive and climb.

 

Intermediate mode requires you to level the plane out of corners yourself and generally control the plane all the time. The gyro in intermediate level will help with things like wind gusts.

 

Manual mode you deal with everything yourself.

 

As a club instructor I hate beginner modes as you learn a completely different way of flying. To switch to the next or normal type modes you need to completely re-learn the techniques of flying.

[Pufferman]

After changing from intermediate to manual, at a safe height, into a light  wind and full power, the right wing drops and the plane dives. 
I barely have time to switch to intermediate to stop crashing. 
I did manage a six minute flight with a Ranger 1600 before burying it in a tree on final approach so I did learn a little bit from my beginner and intermediate flying. 

[Simon Burch 1]

In my opinion, the Ranger 600 is very difficult to fly in 'expert' mode.  I think the reason is that the control throws are too large, perhaps to allow the stabilisation system to work properly.

 

Unfortunately, with no 'rates' switch on the TX, it's not possible to reduce the control throws easily; the only way to do it is to move the control linkage to the inner of the two holes on the servo arms.   It would be better to move the linkage to the outer hole on the rudder and elevator control horns, but I can't see how this could be done without risking damage. Trouble is, with reduced control throws, the autostabiliser will be less effective....so you probably wouldn't want to do it.

 

Consequently, my advice is to continue flying your Ranger 600 in intermediate mode.  Avoid using both Beginer Mode (stabilisation is too strong) and Expert Mode.  Try flying a larger unstabilised rudder-elevator glider such as a Radian; I think you'll find it a lot easier.  If you haven’t done so already, contact your local club and see if anyone would be willing to advise or help.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Simon Burch 1

[Pufferman]

Thanks Simon. 
I have been doing that recently to develop better muscle response and try to gauge distance/height. When I have had a good session I think that I could move on but am immediately disappointed. 
I have fitted another 600 with a 4 ch Rx and ailerons and practice with that. I wish that I had got a Spektrum compatible Rx for rates and range. 
The local club did not respond to my contact so I will keep nipping out to the field next door and have fun. 

[GrumpyGnome]

Unfortunately, clubs not responding to contacts is common. If there are multiple contact methods or people, I'd try them all (and make it clear you're trying them all). If the club field is not too far away, probably worth popping in on a day when the wind isn't too strong.

 

Don't try and move on from Intermediate too soon - you need to be able to have 'good days' consistently before further stretching yourself.

 

I'm afraid I don't understand your comment re Spektrum receiver - especially the 'range' part.

[Pufferman]

Microace sell micro Rxs for different Tx protocols allowing the use of sophisticated Tx. 
The Voltanex instructions advise of limited range and from my experience it is not great and you can see the plane flying off happily. Despite  far flung searches they remain lost!

[GrumpyGnome]

Those microaces micro rxs are designed for very light models at very short range so not sure you'd actually achieve anything by putting one in if you want more range.  Although your plane is going to be tiny, and difficult to be sure of it's orientation above a couple of hundred metres. 

 

If you want to use a more sophisticated transmitter, you'll probably need to look at a MPM (multi-protocol) equipped transmitter as some will bind to Volantex stuff I believe.  An internet search will reveal that.

 

However, it seems overkill for a Ranger 600 if you just want to use it to learn on.  Just fly it in Intermediate mode until it's second nature.  Then try on Expert mode.

 

Better still, persevere with joining a club, where you may be able to learn on something larger, which can fly in more weather conditions.

 

 

[Pufferman]

Thanks for your help. 

[Pufferman]

I think that I know the problem. I have looked at videos of wing drops and also at my notes on my flights and wondered if it could be a warped wing. After careful measurements I found that the TE of the right wing is 6mm higher than that of the left wing. Obviously the gyro can cope with that but I can’t. 
I had already reduced the elevator travel. 
I have another 600 and it’s wings match each other. 
Will now look at ways to alter the wing angle and see what happens. 

On 14/10/2023 at 18:52, Simon Burch 1 said:

In my opinion, the Ranger 600 is very difficult to fly in 'expert' mode.  I think the reason is that the control throws are too large, perhaps to allow the stabilisation system to work properly.

 

Unfortunately, with no 'rates' switch on the TX, it's not possible to reduce the control throws easily; the only way to do it is to move the control linkage to the inner of the two holes on the servo arms.   It would be better to move the linkage to the outer hole on the rudder and elevator control horns, but I can't see how this could be done without risking damage. Trouble is, with reduced control throws, the autostabiliser will be less effective....so you probably wouldn't want to do it.

 

Consequently, my advice is to continue flying your Ranger 600 in intermediate mode.  Avoid using both Beginer Mode (stabilisation is too strong) and Expert Mode.  Try flying a larger unstabilised rudder-elevator glider such as a Radian; I think you'll find it a lot easier.  If you haven’t done so already, contact your local club and see if anyone would be willing to advise or help.

 

[Simon Burch 1]

Warped wings will certainly make your Ranger 600 more difficult to fly in 'Expert' mode; however, even if the wings are straight it's still not going to be easy.

 

My club has occasional use of a small playing field that lies within an aerodrome FRZ.  Only lightweight models are permitted, so we have a Ranger 600 which we use as a club trainer.  I've gained plenty of experience with it. 

 

In my view, it's great for giving newcomers a 'taste of the sky', learning orientation, and flying patterns, but the stabilisation system gets in the way of learning basic handling.  For example, in 'beginner' mode you need to hold on control to turn, which is a sure way to disaster with an unstabilised model.  Even in 'intermediate' mode, it's possible to turn the model using rudder alone (ie without applying any up-elevator) because the stabiliser prevents the nose from dropping.  Learning a fundamentally incorrect technique like this at an early stage is bad news because, later on, it has to be unlearned.  In 'expert' mode the Ranger 600 is too simply difficult too fly and, as such, demoralising for a beginner.

 

IMHO, the original (ie unstablised) F595 Sky King was a better for training within the limits of a lightweight model.  Unfortunately, newer versions of this model have a stabiliser and the control throws have been reconfigured accordingly.  

 

As before, my advice is try to move on to a larger model without stabilisation, and use a more sophisticated TX that will allow you to adjust rates (ideally expo too).  The 3-channel Radian is a good choice if you can find one; it's still available new as the rather gimmicky 'Night Radian', but there are others. 

 

If you've received no response from your local club, try another one; it's so much better if face-to-face experienced help is on hand when to comes to choosing, setting up and learning to fly your model.  

 

 

[Pufferman]

1 hour ago, Simon Burch 1 said:

Warped wings will certainly make your Ranger 600 more difficult to fly in 'Expert' mode; however, even if the wings are straight it's still not going to be easy.

 

My club has occasional use of a small playing field that lies within an aerodrome FRZ.  Only lightweight models are permitted, so we have a Ranger 600 which we use as a club trainer.  I've gained plenty of experience with it. 

 

In my view, it's great for giving newcomers a 'taste of the sky', learning orientation, and flying patterns, but the stabilisation system gets in the way of learning basic handling.  For example, in 'beginner' mode you need to hold on control to turn, which is a sure way to disaster with an unstabilised model.  Even in 'intermediate' mode, it's possible to turn the model using rudder alone (ie without applying any up-elevator) because the stabiliser prevents the nose from dropping.  Learning a fundamentally incorrect technique like this at an early stage is bad news because, later on, it has to be unlearned.  In 'expert' mode the Ranger 600 is too simply difficult too fly and, as such, demoralising for a beginner.

 

IMHO, the original (ie unstablised) F595 Sky King was a better for training within the limits of a lightweight model.  Unfortunately, newer versions of this model have a stabiliser and the control throws have been reconfigured accordingly.  

 

As before, my advice is try to move on to a larger model without stabilisation, and use a more sophisticated TX that will allow you to adjust rates (ideally expo too).  The 3-channel Radian is a good choice if you can find one; it's still available new as the rather gimmicky 'Night Radian', but there are others. 

 

If you've received no response from your local club, try another one; it's so much better if face-to-face experienced help is on hand when to comes to choosing, setting up and learning to fly your model.  

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Simon Burch 1 said:

Warped wings will certainly make your Ranger 600 more difficult to fly in 'Expert' mode; however, even if the wings are straight it's still not going to be easy.

 

My club has occasional use of a small playing field that lies within an aerodrome FRZ.  Only lightweight models are permitted, so we have a Ranger 600 which we use as a club trainer.  I've gained plenty of experience with it. 

 

In my view, it's great for giving newcomers a 'taste of the sky', learning orientation, and flying patterns, but the stabilisation system gets in the way of learning basic handling.  For example, in 'beginner' mode you need to hold on control to turn, which is a sure way to disaster with an unstabilised model.  Even in 'intermediate' mode, it's possible to turn the model using rudder alone (ie without applying any up-elevator) because the stabiliser prevents the nose from dropping.  Learning a fundamentally incorrect technique like this at an early stage is bad news because, later on, it has to be unlearned.  In 'expert' mode the Ranger 600 is too simply difficult too fly and, as such, demoralising for a beginner.

 

IMHO, the original (ie unstablised) F595 Sky King was a better for training within the limits of a lightweight model.  Unfortunately, newer versions of this model have a stabiliser and the control throws have been reconfigured accordingly.  

 

As before, my advice is try to move on to a larger model without stabilisation, and use a more sophisticated TX that will allow you to adjust rates (ideally expo too).  The 3-channel Radian is a good choice if you can find one; it's still available new as the rather gimmicky 'Night Radian', but there are others. 

 

If you've received no response from your local club, try another one; it's so much better if face-to-face experienced help is on hand when to comes to choosing, setting up and learning to fly your model.  

 

 

Thanks for all your input Simon. 
I won’t put as much faith in the utube reviews in future and avoid stabilising. 

[GrumpyGnome]

I think stabilization (i.e. correcting model behaviour NOT selected by the pilot) is useful.  I don't like the limiting imposed by other electronics.  If your Ranger is like my little foam warbird, there are three settings:

 

a) Beginner - full stabilization and restricted control, i.e. you can't bank too much, or climb to much etc.

b) Intermediate - stabilization but unrestricted control

c) Expert - no stabilization, no control limits

 

Not sure what the manual for yours says, but if it's the same, Intermediate is a decent one to use (my baby warbird is quite nippy and responsive in expert mode....)

[Simon Burch 1]

Please don't misunderstand me - stabilisation systems and autopilots have their place.  In fact, I'm very much in favour of them because they can make RC model flying easier and more accessible to newcomers, and they can make smaller models more manageable in turbulent conditions.

 

However, stabilisation needs to be used appropriately.  I think that if you really want to learn RC flying, and perhaps take a BMFA RC Achievement Scheme test, you're better off without it - provided your model has sufficient natural stability and its controls are properly set up for manual flying (of course, others might disagree).   From what you say, I think you probably fall into this category. 

 

I recommend using a PC-based simulator too.  PicaSim is excellent, free and it features a number of gliders.

[Andy Gates]

Pufferman,

 

I feel sorry for you and the reaction you are getting from the club you are trying to get in contact with.

As club secretary for our club, it is my job to ensure a timely response to all applications or contacts.

 

Roughly which bit of the country are you in?

Maybe someone like me who uses this site, and has similar responsibilities for a club in your area might contact you. Worth a try.

 

A distorted machine is not going to help you get used to flying, you really need the help of an experienced modeller to help sort your machine so it does fly correctly. I hope you get the help you need.

[Pufferman]

At last!

Got my cast off and the wind was light. 
It was almost stable in expert, but very very responsive. Too responsive for me to try anything. 
At 83 I think that I will just stick to going into the field behind me and practicing in intermediate until I wear it out. 
Will try my Ranger 1600 then but it is so much heavier to handle single handed. 
Thanks for all your assistance.