Watt Watch........trends in model flying

[Myron Beaumont]

It was the engines that first got me into the hobby in the first place & I still love fiddling with them /tuning etc (Mills .75 ,1.3 EDBee Frog 2.49 & so on).I progressed from that to the aeronautics industry & I also have worked on an oil rig with huge electric power plants on the legs of a semi-submersible Where I also re-built diesel engines big & small .I know which type I still prefer when I got them running !No satisfaction changing brushes and throwing a switch! Just call me old fashioned (like tissue/nylon/dope/banana oil/balsa/hardwood.etc .Isuppose eventually there might be efficient solar powered models or maybe even nuclear who knows ,but at the moment I love "oily smelly"up to date powerful non exploding IC engines.By the way an'lectric fan said he was helping the environment Where does he think the long chain of events that gives a few volts /amps starts out ? Lightening???

[FLY ELECTRIC]

HA HA - so now pungent i.c. model fumes are more environmentally friendly than Electric models!
I'll try and get the world's governments to stop allowing development of Electric-hybrid and Electric cars, as clearly their manufacture and running strategy is more harmful to the environment than millions of C02 producing petrol cars!
Like Nasa Steve stated, there is so much fear of change.
Nige.

[Peter Miller]

I am so glad to know that Nige is so concerned about the environment. Here is someone who obviously would never go abroad for their holidays and drives the most economical car possible.
Actually one of the best forms of protecting the environment would be if everyone refused to buy anything made in the far East.
PLEASE, Don't bring environmental issues into model engines, it is rediculous.and anyone who flies on holiday should remember that a full size jet engine burns 700 gallons and hour on an open bonfire so they should really shut up about the environment.
It would in fact be more environmentally friendly if every family on a plane drove their cars to the Costa Del Sol rather than fly.
I live under the flight path into Stanstead so my little glow engines won't make the slightest difference.
No. I am not an environmental nut, I won't be around that long and couldn't care less.

[FLY ELECTRIC]

What a fabulous attitude! The old adage of "every little helps" clearly escapes some people. Good job someone cares I'd say!
Yes it's a band B Yaris, 73 Mpg and £35 a year road tax for my efforts, at least Gordon Brown recognises them. Great car for driving to Europe with in fact!
Such a shame it has been left to the more responsible younger generation to help save the planet for the next generation that we DO care greatly about.
Nige.

[Alistair Taylor]

Lordy lordy

Handbags at fifty paces chaps.

"my engine's better than your motor"
"no it isn't"
"yes it is"

Really - you should all know better.

We build, and fly model aeroplanes. They serve no greater purpose than providing us with a bit of entertainment, possibly some silverware for the mantelpiece if we're really good at it. Who gives a fig what motor you use on the front provided it complies with noise/safety regs?!!!

If there are more electric models now than previously, it is because more modellers are buying them. If there are fewer IC models now, it is because fewer modellers are buying them.

That more modellers are buying electric these days is probably a pretty good indication that flying them is a lot more fun than it used to be, thanks to developments in motors (hats off to the CD-ROM industry), batteries (hats off to the power-tool and mobile phone industry - or were Lipos developed as an anti-personnel device?), and lightweight man-made materials like carbon fibre and depron (can you believe that we've benefited from burger wrapping!). None of these developments were initially specifically targeted at the model industry (Sanyo developed Lipos so I could crash burger wrappers into hangar ceilings? I don't think so).

Does this mean that IC models are not fun any more? No. It just means that the average modeller has a fixed budget, and has to balance his expenditure on one against the other, and against the mortgage, kids, and bunches of flowers for flying days.

At my club the majority fly IC only, a (growing) handful IC and electric, one or two electric only, and we're occasionally dignified by a visit from the uber-gods of the jet turbine world. There's no segregation or points-scoring. If it flys well, fellow club members are interested, if not, they're more than happy to offer a friendly bin-bag, particularly if it crashes in an unexpected and entertaining way.

Speaking personally, if it's fun to fly, then I'll fly it, whether it's free flight, r/c, electric, glow, diesel (ooooh seriously old skule), balsa, foam, tissue, film or carbon fibre. I'm hoping to try Control line sometime this year.

If modellers keep buying enough IC engines to make producing them (in china) a profitable enterprise, then they will not disappear, regardless of noise regs, fuel restrictions etc. If we don't buy them, then they will go. Simple as that.


AlistairT
(lights blue touchpaper, stands back)

[Peter Roberts]

Good for you Alistair. Makes complete sense.

[nasa_steve]

"No. I am not an environmental nut, I won't be around that long and couldn't care less"


this is exactly the attitude that has led us to the enviromental problems we will ALL be facing in the near future what a sorry state of affairs a serious case of i'm all right jack me thinks. i wonder peter do you have any children??

[Alistair Taylor]

We all might want to keep pretty quiet about environmental issues as we build our planes with tropical hardwood (balsa), non-renewable petroleum-derived depron/plastic/Carbon fibre, using glues that are hazardous to anything that breathes, and then fly them using batteries laced with cadmium and fuel made from volatile organic compounds.

AliT

[Chris Collins]

Still, its got to be more environmentally friendly than off roading or rally driving, to name but two.

[Myron Beaumont]

Nice one AliT. Ithink i'll forgo my nasty glues that work well & revert to flour & water That way I can encourage bacterial growth thus helping the environment!Ne'er mind progress Eh!(& efficiency whil'st I think about it) How about that nasty hydrogen gas given off by these new fangled lead/acid batteries.?Dangerous stuff eh?

[nasa_steve]

hydrogen is okay it just eventually combines with oxygen to make water does'nt it??

[Glenn Howcroft]

This thread is fun ...

Why can't we all accept that we are all different. Some of use will never like electric ... or I.C. for that matter.

I dont think that theres all that much difference in cost these days either. I have just been looking at a direct 1.10 4 stroke replacement brushless motor for Less than £60. Brand new, off a respectable UK dealer. Lipo batterys are also coming down as well.

Yes theres the cost of spare batterys and the charger, but then again if you add up the cost of the starter, power panel, a years worth of fuel etc it's not so different.

As for sound, ... well when have you ever heared a 2 stroke or even a 4 stroke sound exactly like the real thing ?. Never i should think. Yet its easily possible with a 60 ish size electric and a sound module.

In the end it all comes down to what we as an individual are happy with.

Will electric models become more popular ... yes. Especially with flying site noise problems.

Are they better ? who knows ...

Lets just have fun flying whatever the power source.

[Myron Beaumont]

Nasasteve -Yes Hydrogen will combine with oxygen in the right proportions & when ignited produces an explosion & a drop or two of H20.? Glenn BY THE WAY WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT STARTERS I use my environmentally friendly first finger. All helps to "save the planet" without using energy produced indirectly from fossils 1,000,000's of years ago.

[Alistair Taylor]

but seriously

If you want to use aeromodelling to save the planet, I would advise starting with saving the flying field.

Modellers are one of a host of users of "brown field" sites. These are under threat from developers, cos there aren't enough houses, particularly in the south east(which is why they cost so much there).

Brown field sites are great for wildlife, but they are not usually protected by law. Which is great if you want to fly without being bothered by anyone, but also great if you want to build lots of houses without having to deal with pesky natterjack toads or ospreys.

So my advice is, gang up with the greenies to keep your flying fields

AlistairT

[Alistair Taylor]

Glenn

I agree - £60 will get you either a respectable IC powerplant, or a respectable EP setup, but if you want to fly both, you'll need....£120 (those years of schooling weren't wasted after all).

Or you can buy a small IC engine, and a parkfly electric setup, and run two models for the same money.

So really the IC/EP "debate" comes down to personal (and subjective) decisions on whether you prefer IC or EP and what size and type of plane you want to fly, and then an objective decision on how many different types of power systems you can afford.

If the EP power system you would need for the plane you want to build will blow your personal budget, then EP isn't suitable, or it's time to sell granny.

With enough money (and time), anything can be made to fly with EP/IC/turbine/steam/fly power.

AlistairT

PS: If you want to frighten yourself, add up the money you've spent on your six or seven most expensive planes/bits of RC gear - and then go shopping with that figure in your head for one plane.

Now imagine how picky you'd be about weather/wind direction/number of people in the pits if you had that one really expensive plane, and how nervous you'd be flying it.....not to mention leaving it in the shed overnight.

[Malcolm Fisher]

I am one of those who likes i.c. as power - preferably diesel but I do have more models powered by glow engines these days. I have one electric powered foam Cub which is OK for flying on the local sports field.

However, if I'm really honest, my favourite power plant is gravity as used when I fly slope soarers which were my introduction to R/C modelling. Prior to going R/C I was a "died in the wool" control line flyer.

[Tomcat]

Dear! oh dear!! oh DEAR!!!
I frequent a lot of fourums and I have to say You lot are the PITTS!!!
Fighting, squabbling like clumsy children!

This is my first proper look around here and feel that I can not reccomend this forum to others.

Mike Wright

[Malcolm Fisher]

Mike - it would seem that you didn't read the thread title.

Yes, there has been some "squabbling" - it isn't unusual for people who hold a particular view to respond when they feel that their view is challenged.

However, there are many other threads on this forum and you are being short sighted if you condemn the whole forum after a brief encounter with this particular thread.

There always will be arguments between different disciplines which is one reason why I wish that the modelling press hadn't become "compartmentalised" and would like the magazines to cover ALL aspects of model flying as Aeromodeller and Model Aircraft did many years ago - even including other aspects of modelling such as cars, boats and other types of model.

[Phil Meredith]

Oh nice landing Mike,,,
next time try it with the wheels down hill,
Cya, Phil

[Myron Beaumont]

Mike Nothing wrong with Pitts
What have you built today? I've built a Flair pup fuselage & had time waiting for my alphatic glue to dry to read the views of flying folk on the web .I enjoy reading about every body's points of view even if you don't.Don't recommend this thread to others that you know by all means.By the way it ain't half heavy -the fuselage that is .I might drill lots of holes behind the CG point given to furthet lighten the tail area . Anything to avoid having to add a church roof up for'ard.

[Myron Beaumont]

PS along with my FC 52 fst.

[Phil Meredith]

i am a recent member on here,
i own a general store, with a small model shop alongside, my wife is about to give birth in the next four weeks, i work 13 hrs a day 7 days a week, i dont have any time for building or flying at the moment, this is the closest i can get to the hobby for the time being and i have found it very informative " there are some clever people on hear with a wealth of experience, as well as being able to share some of mine i am learning from theres, and a bit of friendly banter makes it all the more fun, and to me that is what this hobby is all about, fun fun fun,,,,,
thank you RCM&E phil

[Alistair Taylor]

"Fighting, squabbling like clumsy children!"

You should see the flying...

AlistairT

[Tim Mackey]

Hee Hee.

[FLY ELECTRIC]

...unless you use the new solar panel or wind turbine generator chargers! But these are only suitable for small currents.
As it is, I believe methanol is a very low CO2 emission combustant, and is actually used in the new "green" bio-fuels.
Each to their own at the end of the day.