Ben Buckle - Mini Super

[Mark Wood 2]

Hi Steve thanks for the comments, The go faster stripes make it more aerodynamic and capable of 3D flying

Seriously tho I totally understand what you say about the front dowel, there was quite a bit of subtle strengthening I had to do here and there on the kit , doubling up in some areas especially from the bottom of the cabin windows upwards (I built a few super 60s where on one the wing departed fues mid air!!) I added gussets and extra wood in this area so I am more than happy this will be ok - kinda glad it looks " almost standard" from the outside, well apart from it looking like its a bit more fwd and hanging on by a thread :D

I have a 12x7e apc style prop on it and it was pulling 22a and if memory serves around 300 odd watts. I have a few props ranging from 10" to play with so I can get an idea of the best prop to use. weight came in at around 1050g all up ready to go so pleased with that.

Oh also forgot to mention that I converted to taildragger and made the rudder larger too.

cheers

Mark

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

Wow a 12" prop on a Mini Super....thats a big un!!!

Are you using a 3S battery Mark? 22A on a 3S will be around the 230watts mark.....which should fly her nicely.....over 300watts should see some great hot doggin' 3D action.....

[Mark Wood 2]

I went with the large and slow train of thought. There will be no action other than slow action on this one :D I've had my share of wing claps and wing departures!

I just plugged the wattmeter in again and you are spot on Steve its 230watts, no idea where the 300 came from? But I do intend to play with props to see what other figures I get.

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

230watts will be fine Mark......the waft from that big prop will drag her around a treat...

[Mike Thorne]

Hi all.

I am a newby. I was given a Ben Buckle Mini Super kit for my birthday and have literally just opened the box and laid the plans out. This is my first ever flying model build. I used to make the old Airfix kits when I was at school (afew years ago now).

I have been reading this thread with great interestand am getting really fired up about building this model and eventually flying it. Although I am really looking forward to flying the model when it is finished I am really looking forward to getting stuck into the building of it and learning and developing the different techniques associated with building a radio controlled model aircraft.

Any hints and tips for a real beginer would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Mike

[kc]

Mike, first things are:-

Read a book such as David Boddington's Building & Flying Radio controlled Model Aircraft or Peter Holland's Model Aeroplane Building Sketch By Sketch. Both out of print but available secondhand on Amazon or could be reserved at your local library.

Before you start on the kit.......draw around every component onto a sheet of paper ( lining paper / wallpaper ) so that if you make a mistake you can cut a new part or if you have a crash you can make a new bit. Make sure the drawing is accurate and mark the thickness & wood type - ply or balsa

Get a scalpel such as Swan Morton Retractaway with some 10A blades. ( about 4 pounds) Also a razor saw is best but a midget hacksaw is a fair substitute. Learn to cut accurately in the thick balsa 'sticks' used in vintage construction to make an accurate joint. Make a trial joint or to in scrap.

Look for other build bogs here especially the best ones like Tim Hoopers Citabria to get ideas and tips.

Anyhing you dont understand ask here........... -

Edited By kc on 03/03/2013 15:44:54

[Mike Thorne]

Thanks KC.

I've got myself David Boddington's book and a Swan Morton scalpal with a variety of blades. I am also in the process of purchasing a razor saw. Thanks for the tip on drawing around all of the components. I'll make sure I do this.

Once again thanks for the reply and don't worry if there is anything I will be straight back on the forum.

[Mark Wood 2]

I found a mini mitre box very useful too. You might find you are about 6 lengths of 3/16sq and a sheet of 1/16 shy from the kit. The thing i learnt from my build was that i had to think ahead of what to do next as the plan and instructions had a few mistakes so i did plenty of dry fitting of
parts before gluing. Let us know how you get on

[Mike Thorne]

Thanks for the tips Mark.

I saw mini mitre boxes on the web whilst doing a bit of surfing last night and did wonder whether they might be of much use or not. Think I might invest in one and also some balsa as this seems to be a bit of recurring theme with BB kits.

I will endevour to keep you posted as the build comes together.

[Mike Thorne]

I am puttint the wings together at the moment. I was thinking that I might have go at adding ailerons. I haven't done to much glueing together as yet. I was wondering if anyone could tell me how best to do this.

Thanks

[KingKade]

Trev, you mentioned the short supply of balsa, in the kit, i may just order a plan and get the lumber from another source? I dont suppose there was a list of balsa , ply supplied with the kit? To act as a shopping list for me?

btw, i was thinking of an os30 4s up from to treat myself? Will i be Over powering it?

kk

[Mowerman]

Ailerons are not really needed on this model but if you want to try them you need to reduce the dihedral. Would probably be a good idea build to plan and to copy a wing rib in thin ply to use as a .template for building an aileron wing later

[Mike Thorne]

Thanks Mowerman. I think that I will head your advice and just stick to the plan for now and build an aileron wing later

[Mark Wood 2]

So... Ive had quite a few flights now and I think I might need some help (plane-wise I know about the mental thing)....

The old girl wants to be a space shuttle in the sense that as she gets airbourne anything over half throttle gets her poking her nose straight up and I do mean vertical.

As soon as I cut the motor she'll level off and while I have her gliding back in she flies straight and nice, maybe a little twitchy but a lot better.

Dont get me wrong I can fly it around for 2 or 3 battery packs at very slow speed and she is fine but corners just feel horrible, maybe this is the nature of elevator/rudder but the full size versions i built just handled so much nicer. As I give some rudder she starts start to dip a wing and then off the nose goes and its like i then have to use full throttle to pull her round and stop her falling out of the sky. Its almost like she wants to prop hang all the time... great for 3d but im after some relaxing flying

Ive tried increasing the motor down thrust started at 1 washer then added another this maybe helped a bit. Also incase the angle of the wings were out I also added a wing band under the back of the wing to lift the back of the wing and lower the front. I even reversed this without much joy.

Can anyone else suggest what I am doing wrong or have ideas as to do next?

Many thanks

Mark

[kc]

Mark, the first thing to check is that the wing bands are suffucient and not allowing the wing to lift. Next check CG and also wing incidence and tailplane incidence. Could also be too much power!

As regards insuffucient balsa supply in the kit, I wonder if there really was enough but it was not used economically? With a 48 inch span I presume 36 inch lengths were supplied for each 24 inch half span and the remaining 12 inch offcuts should be utilised for other purposes. But if you just cut up full lengths for the fuselage verticals etc instead of using up these offcuts you would run out of full lengths for wing spars! Just give a thought to use balsa most economically.

[Mark Wood 2]

Thanks KC,

I should have said I verified CG was as per location on the plan and the bands definately aren't letting any movement in the wing on the fues. Being a dummy here do you mean by wing an tail incidence as being level with respect to each other? Would you be able to give me some guidance on how to check this? Possibly too much power, I did get a less powerful motor than SteveH and I also tried to limit how much throttle I gave and even when slowly chugging along going into a turn makes her go vertical.

Re the wood I put aside the lengths for the wings before I started on the fues and that only left me zero lengths to do the fues, the fin and tail plane. I think I purchased 6 more lengths and that was ontop of the 3 or 4" wide 1/16" sheet for the wing panels I also had to get.

Many thanks

Mark

[sticky fingers]

I had exactly the same experiencein regard to shortages of 3/16 square and had to purchase 6 more lengths.Trying to contact the supplier (BB) was an utter waste of time.The finished model is a brilliant flyer which is a bonus but its put me off buying kits,I,ll stick with plans and do my own quantity surveying

Dave

Edited By sticky fingers on 19/04/2013 21:40:18

[Dai Fledermaus]

Customer service at Ben Buckle is an alian concept. I emailed them last year with with an enquiry about their Novice kit. I never had a reply. Needless to say I didn't buy it. How do they stay in business when they treat customers in such a cavalier way?

Edited By Colin Ashman on 19/04/2013 23:13:54

[kc]

I have to say i have not built this model! Better to get advice from someone who has.........However i have the AMI / Boddington plan which is the original taildragger type with airfoil shaped tailplane section re-published in AMI Nov 1996. But the CG marker looks further back on the BB tiny plan ( tricycle u/c ) on his website. The AMI plan shows it as 50mm back ( 191mm chord) Compare this with the BB plan.

Maybe the Ben Buckle plan has a flat tailplane section but I cannot be sure from the tiny plan. Easier to check incidence with a flat tailplane otherwise you really need some sort of incidence meter ( or homemade meter ) maybe ask your fellow club members if they have one. Note that this flat bottomed type main wing section is not the true chord line for incidence purposes, but a flat tailplane ( flat both sides ) is correct for incidence.

It would be usual to try a piece of 1/8 balsa (or even 3/16  ) under the wing LE to change the incidence, just the thickness of a rubber band would not change it much.  

Most people would use 6 rubber bands of the proper aeromodelling type stretched pretty tightly to secure a wing.

Edited By kc on 20/04/2013 01:05:51

[John Miller 4]

In view of the propensity to climb when the power is increased I would have thought the incidence of the wing should be decreased (packing the trailing edge) thereby decreasing the AOA. But what do I know I am just numbnuts newbie at this lark. For information I have built this model and fitted it with a 220 watt electric motor and guess what, open the power and it climbs like a rocket, packed the trailing edge by 2mm instant improvement.

[Mark Wood 2]

Thanks John I've got 230-240 watt motor in there.... I reckon I'll have a play with increasing the packing on the TE more than 2mm and see where it gets me.

cheers
Mark

[John Miller 4]

Mark

I have fitted ailerons to mine, reduced dihederal to 1/2" under each tip, with a bit of mix, rudder aileron it flies a dream. But being light it does not like the wind so it is restricted to fairly calm days.