Taking the plunge - FPV

[Ralph Yeates]

Tony  not sure on the FPV but I have this video splitter works a treat also cheapest
I could find.

[TonyS]

Thanks for the replies folks.

 

Timbo - you're a gem. I'll PM my address - if you have a spare balancing charge socket for a 3 cell I would be very grateful? Alternatively we could wait until Jane and I move in... (I should add, Jane's a cracking cook and her brioche and butter pudding is awesome)

 

Simon, I know what you mean about the costs of small runs of multi-process parts. I didn't mean to be dismissive about the work involved just to say that there will be quite a few chaps on the site that could make their own if they wanted.

 

Ralph, kind of you to post the link for the video splitter. The manuals are quite clear though that splitting the signal weakens it and hence the signals to both the video cam and the goggles will be weakened - not great.

I'm not 100% sure what the answer is - need to read the stuff through again. When you take multiple signals from a TV aerial you can use a booster to beef up the weakened signal.....wonder if that's possible here...?

 

T 

[Simon Dale - Firstpersonview.co.uk]

A lot (most?) people use a diversity switcher when flying FPV.  This helps hugely with multipath interference (where the receiver gets two "copies" of the signal out of phase, the original one and one that has bounced off something) and also allows you to have two different kinds of antennas - an all round omni-directional rubber duck and a high gain focused panel antenna for instance.  The Diversity also has two separate video outputs - one for the goggles and one for your recorder.  This is how I fly.

 

I have however recently tested using a simple Y lead for splitting the video and I have to say that if there is a degradation of the signal, as the experts say there must be, then my eyes can't detect it!

 

I bought a Y lead from Maplin for about £5.99.  I can't find the exact lead on their website now but this T piece, for £2.69, should do the same thing.  For that price perhaps its worth trying and seeing if you can see any difference yourself.  http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=218942 

 

All the best

 

Simon

 

 

 

 

[TonyS]

Simon,

Wicked news and definitely worth a try. I'll order a T piece and see what happens. The sad part is, all this FPV stuff is making sense to me now but it does mean I'll have to finally work out how to use the video equipment that's been gathering dust in a drawer for years.... 

[Ralph Yeates]

Taken me 2 years to find out I can actually record from an A/V input into my video camera. Some one RC Groups has done a list of a load of the video cameras that support A/V input.

[TonyS]

Ralph,

As soon as I've finished building up the tail on my Gloster I'll be getting the instruction manual out for my videocam ! Now that you've pointed me in the direction of an AV socket I'll know what to look out for.Maybe you've just saved me the 2 years 

 

[Klippy]

Hi TonyS, or anyone, I've asked this question, and ,as yet, have never received a reply from punters of Virtual Reality goggles. As a 65 year old, I now have to wear glasses because my arms became too short about 10 years ago. The question is, can you use these FPV goggles if you wear glasses?

Me personal feeling is that you must wear a pair of glasses that allow you to focus about 30mm in front of your eyes. I'd love to get into FPV, but I'm not about to shell out a lot of money for something I'll never be able to use.

Any input please.

[Tim Mackey]

Thats a god question and point Tony P. I expect you are correct in your thinking, and people needing correction for close work ( like me ) will surely have a problem?

[Ralph Yeates]

Tony P my Brother is a glasses wearer and the goggles don't fit up close to your eyes like glasses so he wears his glasses and the goggles after the glasses {maybe we have big heads and the goggles are quite small} . Unless you get a more definative answer I'll have him do some testing and upload some pictures  { I only need them for reading and computer work so am not a good tester }

 

Edited By Ralph Yeates on 04/01/2010 09:39:50

[Simon Dale - Firstpersonview.co.uk]

Hi Tony and Timbo, Wearing glasses under our VR1400 goggles is no problem. Many, if not most, of our customers wear glasses under their goggles. We accept returns for orders which don't suit for any reason (so long as it's returned within a few days and in perfect condition). Never has anyone returned goggles for this reason. All the best Simon Dale FirstPersonView.co.uk

Edited By Simon Dale - Firstpersonview.co.uk on 04/01/2010 09:41:57

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

That's an interesting question. I have no experience of FPV but I have had experience in using VR googles in other applications and like you Tony I am long sighted. I found I could use them without glasses no problem.

 

One thing I do know is that no one, no matter how good their eyesight, can focus on an object 30mm away. The minimum accommodation distance is usually quoted as approximately 25cm - about 9 inches. So if the image surface of the goggles are only about 30mm from your eyes you are clearly not focusing there. I think it is probably the case that a better analogy is that its like looking out of a window at a distance scene. The window is very close and if you are long-sighted you will not be able to focus on details on the glass. But you can of course see the distance scene clearly. So with VR googles maybe your eyes "think" that the objects you are looking at are actually quite a long way away - as they are are of course meant to be - and so us long-sighted lot have no problems. Just my theory based on using VR googles, would be interesting to hear from an actual user to see if that's right

 

BEB

[Ralph Yeates]

here is the list of recorders that can be used cam recorders etc

[Clive Matthews]

Just be aware that there may be differences between US spec video cameras and EU video cameras. Because of some Custom and Excise rule, some video cameras may have the ability to record from an external source disabled.

 

 

[Klippy]

Ralph, Simon and BEB, thanks for the input, it would seem that having to wear reading glasses is no problem, I think I feel a Credit Card twitch coming on. We have a particular problem in that it costs us about 1000Bpds to get an accurate game count, doing it by FPV would appear to be the answer. Now all I have to do is train up a buddy for the direct view bit!

[Simon Dale - Firstpersonview.co.uk]

Tony,

 

Taking onboard your feedback about the Pan and Tilt we've been on the hunt for cheaper servos of the same dimensions.  We're also banking on the idea that a second production run will cost less per unit because the CAD is accounted for already.

 

Long story short we've today reduced the price to £44.99:
http://www.firstpersonview.co.uk/head-trackers-pan-tilt/pan-tilt-mount

 

As a thank you for your research and development, and to ease the pain of a price reduction after you just paid the old price, I'd like to send you a £15 gift voucher.

 

All the best

 

Simon

www.firstpersonview.co.uk

[TonyS]

Simon,

That's very kind.

For those reading I will say that - ignoring the above refund - I've been very impressed with the speed of service and communication from firstpersonview.com. This just adds the cherry on top! (And no, I'm not sponsored and I don't know Simon personally...).

 

Back to the thread....

I got my servos today and the larger crystal for the Futaba so in theory I'm ready to start putting the whole thing together. Problem is I can't get on with the Futaba at all. It may even be broken. This is the subject of a different thread "TC7P Tx".

 

Until I can get this Tx going then I'm afraid everything else has just ground to a halt..... 

 

Tony..."accurate game count..." sounds fascinating... do tell. 

[TonyS]

Well, I don't seem to be able to find the time to indulge in my various projects - not complaining about being busy and I suppose the weather's not been great anyway...

 

Back to the fray. Today I rang the club (LHS at Oxhill, Warwickshire) and declared myself incompetent and at a loss as to why my Futaba wouldn't play with my Rx. Sean was amazingly helpful so I packed myself into the car and took the Tx to see what could be done.

Firstly, Sean managed to provide me with a new Rx. This time a Futaba model not a GWS. (I know Timbo - you told me they were pants but I guess I needed to find out the hard way....)

Also, the antenna had broken so Sean managed to find an old one in the shop to cannibalise and so, new RX and repaired TX in hand I rushed home...to discover I hadn't bought any crystals to fit the new Rx - the old GWS used naro sized crystals...

 

Anyway, when the new crystals arrive I think I'll have all the right bits. The wiring is a minor nightmare. The pic below should give you some idea..

Top of pic you have the pan/tilt assembly and camera Tx trailing off to the top right. Below that is the power lead for the camera. There are two servo leads, one of which requires an servo extension. There's the motor and ESC. I've had to make an extension cable for the power leads to the ESC. Middle of the RHS of the fuselage is the main flight battery a 1,700mAh 3S. This connects via an extension to the LiPo saver LED mounted in the top of the nose of the fuse in the RHS of the fuselage (in sight of the camera when flying). Attached to the side of the RHS of the fuselage is the Futaba Rx. Attached to the LHS of the fuselage is the camera battery - a 900MaH 2S. The Rudder and aileron servos are buried in the exterior of the two fuselage halves.

 

I am concerned about the CG with all the gubbins being forward of the CG. 

[Bert]

TonyS

 

Your a braver man than me.

 

If I had all that cash tied up in a 'plane i wouldn't want to put my hopes on ever seeing it again on a radio out of the junk box.

 

I would getting the best I could for it.

 

Bert

[TonyS]

Don't worry bert,

I know it sounds like that but the TX is I'm told, fully functioning and the RX is new and all will be properly range tested before flying. If I'd realised that the crystals were a different size in the two RX's I'd have been able to check it all out this weekend.. Not to worry, I do have a Gloster to build  

Tony 

[TonyS]

Quick update - just in case you thought I'd given up on the whole thing.....

 

The Futaba Tx that I got on eBay doesn't appear to be working. As Bert and others have observed - it's rather a lot of kit to be sending up on the hope that I'll have control so it's on it's way back to Futaba / Ripmax for them to check out.

 

As a foot note...In my thread on the problems with the Tx nobody suggested that I check whether I was using a Tx crystal in the Tx and a Rx crystal in the Rx.......... 

As a strictly 2.4 person I never knew that the Crystals were different.. As it turns out BRCHobbies had sent me two Rx crystals of each band... Bit daft on their part and shows that not a lot of thinking goes into packing the goods.... (i.e. Why would anyone order two Rx crystals and on several bands....?) 

[flytilbroke]

Looks like 2.4 Ghz is having a new effect. Lack of knowledge syndrome. You is correct Mr S, I never thought that someone did not know about TX/Rx chrystals.

 

Your Q, I have two regular 35Mhz Trannies, one on 66chan and one on 73chan. For the purpose of lessening the wait for a peg, I have a number of models on both Frequencies.

 

I will change over time to 2.4Ghz, just not quickly as why fix or replace something which works well? Especially as the money supply is limited.

 

Keep smiling Tony.

[John Privett]

Oops,  sorry Tony,  I also briefly wondered whether you had the tx and rx xtals the right way round, but instantly dismissed the idea as too obvious!

 

But of course, if you didn't know then why would you know?  Only obvious if you know the answer!

[TonyS]

Chaps, no worries.

There are a number of problems with the way people come in to the hobby today.

Twenty years ago, you'd bomb down to the local shop, have a chat, get some advice and leave with the right kit. Now, we order online and take our chances. If I click the button to buy two crystals (both Rx) there's no-one to say "why two Rx crystals? Did you mean to buy an Rx and  Tx ?

I have to say I'm glad I've come back to the hobby post 2.4gHz. These 35mHz sets seem so complicated and, dare I say, 'antiquated' but if you already have one and understand it then, as FTB says, if it aint broke....... 

[TonyS]

Well, after what seems forever, I'm back to the FPV project.

 

My Futaba Tx arrived back yesterday. The problem appeared to be with the brand new Rx I'd bought, not with the Tx. The repair service replaced the PCB in the Rx for me at a cost of £48 which was nice of them as I'd just spent £34 buying the Rx new it in the first place. As it was new from the shop that arranged the repair it was agreed that I didn't need to pay!

 

 Anyway back to the build.

I downloaded the manual for the Headtracker unit from the firstpersonview website, opened the Futaba manual kindly supplied by Andy and set to work.

 

Now, I'm not sure how others do this kind of stuff but I have to understand how it all works before I start plugging things together and I was fairly stumped on this one. Eventually it clicked that the head tracker sends signals to the Tx as if it was a Student's Tx coupled in a buddy box system. The difference is that while the Trainer (pilot) operates Channels 1 to 3 (Elevator , Rudder and Throttle - I prefer the rudder on the right stick when I've no ailerons) the Student (in this case the Headtracker) operates Channels 5 & 6 (the pan and tilt servos).

This is why the training switch has to be secured in the ON position on the Trainer's Tx - thus allowing input by the Headtracker at all times.

In normal circumstances (and I've never flown on a buddy system) I guess the trainer holds the training switch to allow the student to pilot the aircraft and lets go of the switch when he needs to take over.

So, the first thing I did was plug everything together and power it up to ensure everything was working and......... disaster....

Channels 5&6 on the Tx are ON/OFF channels. When I powered up the pan/tilt servos the tilt servo tried to reach is maximum opposite lock position and stripped all the gears when progress was stopped by the bracket.

I'll need to either replace the gears (are all servo gears standard as I'm not sure I'll find a replacement gearset for this make - Super Tec Naro Max/BB?) or perform some serious surgery and try to break the glued servo from the pan servo and replace the servo completely.

The main problem is how to change / assign different parameters to Channels 5 & 6 on the Tx - the instructions are not helping me here. I want both Channels 5 & 6 to work like aileron or rudder channels i.e. proportionately not just ON or OFF. I can't seem to get to anywhere in the menu system that allows me to do this.

 

If anyone has any ideas on this I'd be grateful and in the meantime I'll try to fix my pan/tilt mount.... 

[TonyS]

Oh, I forgot to add....

When the whole thing was powered up I couldn't get the motor to work. I get a tune but then instead of the 3 beeps to indicate 3S it keeps beeping and there;s no throttle. I've tried different ESC's I've tried a 2S battery and I've tried a different motor (same result).

I guess this project is not meant to be........