Phoenix

[r6dan]

Hey all,as a newbe to flying I have only had maybe 15 mins stick time,would a sim like phoenix help much?I really don`t have much spare cash and cant just waste it so is it worth buying to learn the basics,and maybe progress a bit quicker,no matter how great the guys are that have been teaching me at the local club  they cant be around all the time.So what do you lot think?

[Steve W-O]

Phoenix is good, but the planes don't fly like the real ones.

 

There are free (FMS) and cheaper (Real Flight /and Plane master simulators that probably do as good a job helping.

 

The best thing they do is to teach the control reversal when the plane comes towards you.

 

So if cash shortage is a problem, maybe Plane Master would be a better start.

 

It is always questionable how much you can transfer from simulator practice to the field, certain things you can, some you can't. 

[r6dan]

Control reversal is a bit strange,it has me trying to face the way the plane is flying to try and control it! I guess a sim would get me used to that and what the plane does in relation to TX stick inputs,and of course if I crash its free!! 

[John Privett]

Practice on a sim would certainly help the "left is right when coming towards you" learning.  You need to get to the stage where it just happens automatically without you having to think about it, so hours on the sim will help with that.

 

If you drive a car, think back to when you learnt.  To start with, changing gear required a lot of thinking about - what to do, when to do it, sequence of clutch and gear stick etc.  After a while you probably suddenly realised one day that you'd just changed gear without actually conciously thinking about each stage of it.

 

I learnt to fly fixed-wing before sims (or PCs!) were around.  More recently I took up helis as well.  The sim certainly helped there, especially learning to hover nose-in.  As said before with time spent you start doing things automatically.  When I now hover the real thing nose-in I'm not conciously thinking about what I'm doing - my fingers are just moving on the sticks.  In fact if I try to think about what my fingers are doing it starts to worry me as I can't seem to think that fast!  Again, the sim helps you get to that stage without the expensive crashes!

 

So in summary,  a basic sim will be fine for the basics - control reversal when coming towards you, or (later on) when flying inverted.  The more expensive sims (I have Phoenix) have a more accurate "feel" and will be better for more accurately modelling aerobatics where the cheaper ones can be somewhat unrealistic.  FMS for instance, couldn't even handle knife-edge flying, though for free it's a perfectly good sim for the basics.

 

Edited By John Privett on 05/09/2010 12:00:45

[Steve W-O]

Although a noble effort, I think FMS is a bit iffy, it seems to work OK on some graphic gards, and not so well on others.

 

RC Planemaster is almost as good as Phoenix, though more limited in scenery and planes, you can change where you stand, so you can take off across you or away from you

 

You will find it on fleabay with a usb "transmitter" for less than £20, so you don't need to keep plugging and unplugging your radio.

 

My son finds it more helpful than Phoenix.

 

He's 8, and after a few hours on Planemaster, has no trouble with control direction, and he lands without a bounce every time (unless he makes a vertical arrival)

 

For your application, that would be my suggestion

[Bruce Richards]

Another vote for RC Planemaster. It is good value for money and does all you need as a beginner.

[Trex700e]

I have tried RC plane master and RC flight master (made by the same people) and both are very good. I would get the Flight master as it just has the edge on the plane master. But if you want an out and out RC simulator i would get phoenix any day. It can teach you everything from fix wings to helicopter and you can fly online as well as some contests. another great thing is that downloads and updates are free!

[Snorbitz]

Phoenix everytime for me. As for realism...i think its pretty damn close to be honest...especially when you start to dial in wind and gusts from various angles. Our "Patch" is on top of an exposed hill and the wind can really keep you on your toes some days....I dial in some fairly extreme 90 deg gusts on my sim and its paid off many times. As people say it will help you lean to move the sticks without thinking and that is key. I fear that a very cheap sim might give you false hope about the reality of flying and cost you more in the long run.....just think about the cost of 1 x trainer type plane plus engine and there you have the cost of the Phoenix sim. Its a no brainer if you can stretch.

[Steve W-O]

Posted by Shuglu on 08/09/2010 09:09:21:
Phoenix everytime for me. As for realism...i think its pretty damn close to be honest...especially when you start to dial in wind and gusts from various angles. Our "Patch" is on top of an exposed hill and the wind can really keep you on your toes some days....I dial in some fairly extreme 90 deg gusts on my sim and its paid off many times. As people say it will help you lean to move the sticks without thinking and that is key. I fear that a very cheap sim might give you false hope about the reality of flying and cost you more in the long run.....just think about the cost of 1 x trainer type plane plus engine and there you have the cost of the Phoenix sim. Its a no brainer if you can stretch.

 

 

 My comment referred to the accuracy of the models to their real ones, like comparing the Wot4 to a real wot4, or the Mentor to the real mentor, very different.

 

Plane master if anything is more critical of your skills, certainly on landing.

 

Like Phoenix, you can edit the characteristics of the plane.

I have Phoenix and Planemaster, and for general practice for a new flyer, I could not vote for it with the extra expense. (Plus the annoying dongle, pity they couldn't have put an extra 4' of cable on it!!!)

 

 

For 1/3 or even 1/4 of the price of Phoenix, Planemaster gives you a good sim, and a "transmitter"

 

Yes, Phoenix is good, but for it to be better overall, you need to justify the extra expense.

 

[Alan Dorrell]

Hi Everybody,

 

I posted a comment a few days ago but it disappeared without trace so here goes again. I am about to go on my Phoenix shortly but have to wait while the result of taking my tablets has finished interrupting my efforts.

 

I think Phoenix is ab fab. I used FSM for some time and it was useful (for free). I have been trying to learn to fly R/C for a couple of years now, at the age of 78 and am making progress, but slowly.

 

However, once my model gets in the air I am now quite relaxed about the plane's orientation and corrections are begining to become almost automatic. On the simulator, I now never crash !!!  except on all the undershoots and overshoots I make on trying to land. I went to Corfu earlier this year to the R/C Hotel, ( I cannot recommend it too highly). Great accomodation, great companionship and great instruction. I made 25 landings (buddy box) out of 34 flights. In my opinion the weakness of all sims has to be the limited periferal vision.

 

Nevertheless, the sims allow one to practice and, as others have already said ,Phoenix graphics are extremely good.  The basic flying site could quite easily have been modelled on my Club's field. So I am going to persevere until my sim landings are satisfactory and then we will see about some basic aerobatics.

 

Cheers. Alan.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

I agree with Steve's general point - there are problems with Phoenix.

 

The physics in Phoenix is fine - but some models do not fly like the real thing. The WOT4 is a good example. For instance a real WOT4 will fly inverted easily - the sim is a right handful inverted because it has a flat bottomed wing like a trainer - which of course the real thing doesn't have. Editing the sim-model and changing the wing section to something more like the real thing definately helps - but the point is still made.

 

Also some of the models in Phoenix have their CoG ridiculously far back - and I'm not talking about high spec aerobats here - try the Sopwith Camel!

 

But for all this I still think Phoenix is a good sim I use it regularly and would recommend it - but it does have to be used with care and in an informed manner to get the best out of it.

 

BEB